# The Democratic National Convention **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 17, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158 "2016-07-17T21:58:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/521 "2016-07-28T07:43:14Z")
No, everybody’s got it all wrong, its the _Republicans_ who are the champions of the little guy, standing up to the wealthy elites that the Democrats so cravenly obey. Did you know that Woody Guthrie wrote songs praising Trump’s father, a champion of equal opportunity housing long before it was cool!? You won’t hear about that on the mainstream media! Or anywhere else, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/522 "2016-07-28T08:12:50Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Loss of jobs overseas is a new thing? How do you address a 30-year-long trend that absolutely no one shows any signs of addressing? [Americans are overpaid](http://theweek.com/speedreads/588147/donald-trump-kicks-gop-debate-by-saying-american-wages-are-high). According to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/523 "2016-07-28T08:24:00Z")
[QUOTE=eschereal] Loss of jobs overseas is a new thing? How do you address a 30-year-long trend that absolutely no one shows any signs of addressing? [/QUOTE] > [@coremelt](#): > > Trump has made that a corner stone of his “policy” such as it is, he’s at least mentioning it as a real problem and the Democrats need to have a response to that or else they are vulnerable. Any idiot can see a problem (case in point). But he offers nothing substantive in terms of solving it. The simple fact is that it’s an incredibly complex issue (far beyond Hair Hitler’s ability to understand in any depth whatsoever) and also very difficult to effectively enforce solutions for. “It’ll be great” or “I’ll fix it” just doesn’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/524 "2016-07-28T08:36:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Tax and spend. As long as the spending is on things that promote future economic growth or competitiveness there is nothing wrong with that. Dollars invested in national infrastructure, renewables and education all meet that criteria. Every dollar spent in this way will cause far more benefit to the local economy than reducing taxes on corporations. Because for the largest corporations far too much of that money flows offshore to tax havens. How much corporate tax did Google or Apple pay last year? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/525 "2016-07-28T08:37:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yes, in case you hadn’t noticed, **that’s the government’s fundamental purpose.** Spend money on things that benefit the people of the nation (such as job creation, for instance), and collect taxes to pay for it. We do not tax and spend our way to prosperity. Do Democrats have a plan for actual growth? For actual Americans to get private sector jobs? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/526 "2016-07-28T08:40:48Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > As long as the spending is on things that promote future economic growth or competitiveness there is nothing wrong with that. Dollars invested in national infrastructure, renewables and education all meet that criteria. Every dollar spent in this way will cause far more benefit to the local economy than reducing taxes on corporations. Because for the largest corporations far too much of that money flows offshore to tax havens. How much corporate tax did Google or Apple pay last year? Infrastructure can produce growth if removed from politics. OTherwise it’s just boondoggles. Bridges to nowhere galore, roads that see a car a day, that sort of thing. Renewables do not produce growth because the government has no idea what will produce growth, and the money flows to campaign contributors instead of worthy technologies. Education has already been well invested in. New spending on top of that is just spending. The reason “tax and spend” has been such an effective line of attack is because Democrats make no effort to limit the effect of politics on all that money. So it just ends up going to cronies, campaign contributors, Congressional districts where an incumbent wants to win some votes, etc. Voters know you’ll just raise their taxes and waste the money again. And then come back hat in hand a few years later, claiming the government is underfunded. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/527 "2016-07-28T08:49:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Infrastructure can produce growth if removed from politics. OTherwise it’s just boondoggles. Bridges to nowhere galore, roads that see a car a day, that sort of thing. Other countries seem to manage to invest in genuinely useful infrastructure, high speed rail, bridges that are needed, better ports, better electricity grids etc etc. If the US can’t do that it’s partly because the GOP has been adamantly opposing any such projects for the last 20 years as ‘tax and spend’. As a result the US infrastructure is falling badly behind the rest of the world, which lowers your global competitiveness. That’s one of the solutions to bringing jobs back, but the GOP would rather give tax breaks that flow to offshore tax havens and benefit no one except the .1%. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/528 "2016-07-28T09:08:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The reason “tax and spend” has been such an effective line of attack is because Democrats make no effort to limit the effect of politics on all that money. So it just ends up going to cronies, campaign contributors, Congressional districts where an incumbent wants to win some votes, etc. No, “tax and spend” has been an effective line of attack because many people don’t like to think beyond the soundbites. Meanwhile, the Republican “cut taxes and spend even more” approach gets ignored. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/529 "2016-07-28T09:11:02Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, “tax and spend” has been an effective line of attack because many people don’t like to think beyond the soundbites. > > Meanwhile, the Republican “cut taxes and spend even more” approach gets ignored. To be fair, a number of hardcore conservatives did get bent out of shape about that, and formed the Tea Party. It’s part of why they don’t trust the GOP establishment. Not that this was a terribly good development… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/530 "2016-07-28T09:14:39Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Other countries seem to manage to invest in genuinely useful infrastructure, high speed rail, bridges that are needed, better ports, better electricity grids etc etc. If the US can’t do that it’s partly because the GOP has been adamantly opposing any such projects for the last 20 years as ‘tax and spend’. As a result the US infrastructure is falling badly behind the rest of the world, which lowers your global competitiveness. That’s one of the solutions to bringing jobs back, but the GOP would rather give tax breaks that flow to offshore tax havens and benefit no one except the .1%. You act as if Democrats have never had control to do those things. Instead, they pass massive road bills that do nothing to advance things like high speed rail. Then there’s the fact that Democrats are happy to fund massive projects and then let environmental groups sue to stop them from actually going forward. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/531 "2016-07-28T09:47:32Z")
There’s been exactly two years of the last 20 where the Democrats had control of both houses and the Presidency, and Obama was rather busy with healthcare reform at that time. Major infrastructure projects need to have bipartisan support, because they need a time commitment of much more than four years. Again in the last 20 years thats been impossible because of the polarisation of politics. Ok fine I should blame Rupert Murdoch and Fox instead of the GOP, but hey the GOP happily got into bed with him when it suited them. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/532 "2016-07-28T09:48:31Z")
I don’t see Trump able to generate much traction from here on out on the ‘shipping jobs overseas’ issue when it is so easy to demonstrate the many many times his companies do exactly that. > **[Donald Trump sought cheap labor overseas for clothing lines | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/politics/trump-clothing-foreign-made/)** Even his daughter does that: [Ivanka Trump Sells Her Chinese-Made Dresses at Macy's, Her Dad's Enemy | Fortune](http://fortune.com/2016/07/22/invanka-trump-dress/) Slam dunk, every time he opens his mouth on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/533 "2016-07-28T10:09:10Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Slam dunk, every time he opens his mouth on the issue. Yeah if Trump’s supporters cared about such things as hypocrisy that might work. Trump can also counter that by saying he’s just being a smart businessman by getting stuff made in the cheapest place, but he’s going to change the rules so that it’s not cheaper getting it made in China anymore. As far as he has a coherent policy, that seems to be it. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/534 "2016-07-28T10:19:02Z")
At one point during President Obama’s speech, I thought he might good-naturedly revive the ad that Hillary once use against him (during the '08 primaries): about which candidate is ready should they get that “3 AM phone call” (about some serious international crisis that might even have nuclear implications). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/535 "2016-07-28T10:38:10Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > So what about income inequality and loss of jobs overseas? Were they addressed at all by anyone except Sanders? How should they address it? What should be done to bring jobs back to the United States, or to prevent them from leaving? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/536 "2016-07-28T11:54:34Z")
I’ve just discovered, after the fact, that my nephew was performing onstage at the DNC the other night, backing Andra Day. Good for him. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/537 "2016-07-28T11:59:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > … Not even an acknowledgment that a HUGE majority of Americans think America is on the wrong track? Meh. Americans pretty much [always](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/07/we-ve-been-on-the-wrong-track-since-1972.html) think we’re on the wrong track. Hell in the Fall of '08 “only 7 to 9 percent of the country thought the country was heading in the right direction” … We are an odd bunch: we like to bitch but we usually respond best to leaders who help us aspire. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/538 "2016-07-28T12:11:31Z")
> [@ebb](#): > > Did anybody else find it odd that Hillary Clinton connected in live from New York? I guess I had always assumed that the candidate was kept backstage somewhere at the convention , all the better to shake hands, make connections and be on the spot for last minute decisions. Certainly Trump was all over the place for the whole duration of the Republican convention. I hadn’t given it much thought, though. Is it typical for the presidential candidate to be somewhere else and then just come in as the closer for the end of the convention? Yes. It’s traditional for the presidential candidate to _stay away_ until the final day. (Or _just before_ the final day.) The purpose of the convention was to prepare to present The Candidate (already selected through primaries in modern times) & also to present The Party. Current office holders, elder statesmen & a promising new face would talk up the candidate–and the party in general. Because the upcoming election would involve more than that one candidate. Trump went against tradition, clomping around the arena from Day 1, watching his family & z-list celebrities speak (since so many party luminaries found something else to do). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/539 "2016-07-28T12:19:36Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > So what about income inequality and loss of jobs overseas? Were they addressed at all by anyone except Sanders? Yes, over and over again. The response is investing in all of us, with education. Cory Booker stated it most explicitly: “The country that out-educates the world will out-earn the world.” And Warren got into some meat on tax reforms like getting rid of tax write-offs for CEO bonuses … even Obama talked about making the economy work better for everyone including those who have been left out, that it is a work in progress. But the mission right now is more to reality check the dystopic vision that Trump presented than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158/540 "2016-07-28T12:29:22Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > …I’m old enough to understand and appreciate the power of incrementalism. As much as I love Bernie’s big ideas, I believe he would have suffered a tremendous backlash had he won the Democratic nomination. Not only would he have endured an insurmountable onslaught of criticism for his “socialist” views and lost the Presidency, he would have moved conservative voters to turn out in droves and destroyed any chance of down ballot successes for Democrats. Without at least taking back the Senate, we will remain on the “wrong track” even if Hillary wins the Presidency. And of course, those all-important Supreme Court appointments. > > My point, obviously, is that when someone says, “America is on the wrong track,” it doesn’t always mean what you may think it does. Yup. The Presidency is important but we really need to get reduce those obstructionist Republicans in Congress. And on the state level, too. My state senator & rep–and my national rep–are all Democrats. Because I live in a Texas _city_. But we’ve still got to get out the vote statewide–just look at our Governor & our even-worse Lite Gov. And our Senators… Yeah, I’d love to see America get back on track. But not the way **adaher** does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democratic-national-convention/760158.md?page=28)