# The democrats abandoning gun control will not help them win the votes of rural whites **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504 "2019-02-13T22:40:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/21 "2019-02-14T20:45:25Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > For one thing, gun control is fairly popular. > > [NPR Poll: After Parkland, Number of Americans Who Want Gun Restrictions Grows : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2018/03/02/589849342/npr-poll-after-parkland-number-of-americans-who-want-gun-restrictions-grows) I think that polls like this provide a useful perspective, but the implication you’re drawing here is incorrect. The problem with asking a question like “Should there be more gun restrictions?” is that it doesn’t tell you how important that question is to people’s votes. And the importance is highly asymmetric. I, like most Americans, will agree that we should have more restrictions on private gun ownership. And, like most of the people who will say that, I don’t think it’s that important an issue. It’s not remotely close to my highest political priority. The people who don’t want more restrictions on gun ownership, though: a _bunch_ of them are single-issue voters on that issue. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/22 "2019-02-14T21:09:59Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Its an argument a lot of people seem to be making. “If democrats abandon gun control, then rural whites will be more open to the party”. > > I disagree. > > For one thing, gun control is fairly popular. > > [NPR Poll: After Parkland, Number of Americans Who Want Gun Restrictions Grows : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2018/03/02/589849342/npr-poll-after-parkland-number-of-americans-who-want-gun-restrictions-grows) > > But more importantly, guns are a symptom of something else. They are a symptom of white people who fear multiculturalism. > … > Basically saying 'I support changing America into something that makes you feel threatened, but I also support your right to own a gun to keep yourself safe from the threats our party is visiting on you" is not a winning argument. But thats the argument people are making for why the democrats should abandon gun control. > > FWIW I’m not saying all whites who own guns are racist. But its a major factor in hostility to gun control among whites. I’m a liberal gun owner and I know lots of liberals who oppose gun control because they feel they need guns to keep themselves safe from the rise of neo-fascism. And there are people who need guns to deal with hunting animals or dealing with threatening feral animals. Or people who need them because they live in areas the police don’t patrol well or they can’t trust the police. So I’m not saying owning a gun = racist. Yes, moderate gun control is rather popular, but that varies a lot as to how you word your poll and if some national tragedy has just occured. But more strict gun control is not popular. There are 100 Million gun owners in the USA. All Adults, mostly voters. More than voted for either candidate last Presidential election Maybe 5 Million NRA “gun nuts” who are die hard Republicans. You wanna lose 95 million votes? When only 120 Million even voted for President? \*\*You will lose those votes if those 95 million think their guns will be taken away. \*\* So yeah sure, ban Bump stocks. Maybe even ban “assault weapons” depending on your definition. Ban the sale (but not possession) of extended magazines. More & better background checks. Those are the popular gun controls anyway. But try to ban all semi-autos, or all handguns, and you not only violate the 2nd Ad, but you just lost 95 Million voters. What is funny about your hypothesis is that it ignores that minorities own guns too, and for the exact same reasons whites do. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/23 "2019-02-14T21:14:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Surely it’s worth doing, even if we don’t see immediate benefits. > > No arguments about critter control or sport-hunting make sense as a defense of keeping automatic weapons freely available. Those weapons are for killing people. > > And on the topic of Democratic messaging: the emphasis should be on measures that consistently receive wide support—background checks, etc. Few Democrats (or few that are running) are in favor of confiscation and similar harsh crack-downs on ownership of firearms. Democrats shouldn’t let Republicans lie about that. Why? In fact gun control in America has never led to a reduction in violent crime. It’s just bad logic to think that it will. Yeah sure there are small socialist nations in Europe, etc have strict gun control laws and low violent crime- they same nations that never had many guns, and never had very much violent crime. There are other nations with strict gun control and severe violent crime issues. Automatic weapons are more or less currently banned. And have been so for quite some time. Kamala Harris has shown she is very much in favor of confiscation without remuneration of all handguns, etc. Sure,\* the emphasis should be on measures that consistently receive wide support—background checks, etc.\*. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/24 "2019-02-14T21:17:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There are about 400 million guns in America owned by civilians. How many of these guns do you think are used to defend livestock? How many gun owners have even seen a cougar outside a zoo? How many are used to murder? Most guns are collected, used for target shooting, home defense, hobbies, security, etc. Very few are used to murder. Too many are used for suicide. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/25 "2019-02-14T21:20:57Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The relevant issue is how many people who would identify as pro-gun single-issue voters would otherwise vote democrats? It’s not all gun owners–it’s gun owners for whom gun control is their #1 issue. That’s a much smaller subset. It is, true, and it’s maybe 5 Million. But there’s 95 million who will vote if\* their own guns\* are threatened. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/26 "2019-02-14T21:45:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why? In fact gun control in America has never led to a reduction in violent crime. It’s just bad logic to think that it will. Yeah sure there are small socialist nations in Europe, etc have strict gun control laws and low violent crime- they same nations that never had many guns, and never had very much violent crime. There are other nations with strict gun control and severe violent crime issues. > > Automatic weapons are more or less currently banned. And have been so for quite some time. > > Kamala Harris has shown she is very much in favor of confiscation without remuneration of all handguns, etc. > > Sure,\* the emphasis should be on measures that consistently receive wide support—background checks, etc.\*. Oh piff. Gun control has never led to a reduction in crime in the US because it’s never been done. Pull my other leg. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/27 "2019-02-14T22:00:47Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > What pushed them into the Trump camp, rightly or wrongly, is that they felt the democratic party increasing only talked about poor intercity and immigrant people. I know I know, those poor white males, are getting screwed! But they feel they are, and the only candidate that put them in the spotlight was Trump. I worry as democrat put up very left leaning candidates, than we may get the same thing again. I’ve said this same exact thing a dozen times on this board, and all I get is comments about how the Democratic party is looking out for them and they’re too ignorant to see it, or how they’re just racist. I worry about the same thing you do for the reason I list above, and the reason you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/28 "2019-02-14T22:05:30Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Oh piff. Gun control has never led to a reduction in crime in the US because it’s never been done. Pull my other leg. Washington DC had effectively banned gun ownership for decades. Chicago too. California has loads of gun control (and so do a bunch of other left-leaning states). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/29 "2019-02-14T22:13:32Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Oh piff. Gun control has never led to a reduction in crime in the US because it’s never been done. Pull my other leg. Ok…I’ll pull it. How are you defining ‘gun control’ that in the US has ‘never been done’? Because there have been plenty of gun control laws put in at both the federal and state levels…that’s a fact, not really open for debate. So I’m curious how you are defining your terms, or if you actually thought about what you posted before posting it. Your post does illustrate why I think the OP needs to define his terms though, because what ‘gun control’ means pretty obviously differs from person to person, and it’s going to impact the answer to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/30 "2019-02-14T22:17:58Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > While it’s probably true that Democrats won’t win any rural white votes by adopting a pro-gun stance, they can certainly fire up the rural white vote to show up to vote R by emphasizing an anti-gun stance. Pretty much this. > [@](#): > > (Of course, if Democrats became pro-gun, they’d anger their own base, who might refuse to come out and vote D. It’s all a numbers game.) Not sure that is true while Trump is in office. Anyone on the left pretty much HAS to vote. Many on the right are not nearly as energized. Give them less to get energized about and you can take over government. Then decide which issues you are willing to lose elections over. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/31 "2019-02-14T22:24:48Z")
The only way rural whites will move back to the Democratic side is if the Democrats can reverse the perception that they are frothing at the mouth for dead babies, and that is the perception among rural whites. I have said this before, and I will say it again. It’s all about the abortion issue. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/32 "2019-02-14T22:29:42Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > The only way rural whites will move back to the Democratic side is if the Democrats can reverse the perception that they are frothing at the mouth for dead babies, and that is the perception among rural whites. > > I have said this before, and I will say it again. It’s all about the abortion issue. There’s no point in reaching out to folks whose hostility is entirely or nearly entirely based on fantasies from right-wing radio and other infotainment sources. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/33 "2019-02-14T22:39:45Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Oh piff. Gun control has never led to a reduction in crime in the US because it’s never been done. Pull my other leg. They banned handguns in DC, SF and Chicago. Those three had such strict gun control laws that it led to Heller. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/34 "2019-02-15T14:54:53Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > The only way rural whites will move back to the Democratic side is if the Democrats can reverse the perception that they are frothing at the mouth for dead babies, and that is the perception among rural whites. > > I have said this before, and I will say it again. It’s all about the abortion issue. I know more than a few pro-choice pro-gun people. I am one so maybe I just know more people like that. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/35 "2019-02-15T15:18:57Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > The only thing that will bring rural under-educated white males to vote Democratic is good jobs with good benefits for blue collar workers. If they saw that it was the Dems that brought those things to their area, anyway. I bet if that happened, they’d overlook a lot. So, it’s never going to happen? Rural under-educated white males (I would add middle-aged or old) are never going to get good jobs with good benefits unless they change at least one of those traits which would mean getting training or moving out to cities, preferably both. The GOP, however, only has to vaguely promise good jobs with good benefits for blue collar workers and that same demographic eagerly believes it. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > The 2018 midterms threw one big thing into sharp relief: Dems are winning the suburbs while losing rural America. (The reverse is true for the GOP.) > > Seems like an advantageous trade to me. > > So do the Dems want to support policies that will reinforce their gains in suburbia, or do they want to keep trying to win back rural America? While not all suburbanites are in favor of gun control and not all rural folks are against it, most suburbanites view the presence of guns as a threat, a danger to their kids. > > There are issues where Dems can stand with rural folks in ways that don’t give suburbanites any heartburn. Gun control isn’t one of them. The gun control issue forces Dems to choose between the two constituencies. And cities + suburbs \> rural America. Seems like a straightforward choice to me. Education is increasingly that differentiates Dems from Repubs. With Trump, that’s going to accelerate. It’s really too bad that the US system gives disproportionate clout to rural states. As rural states empty out and sink deeper, you’ll have more and more distance between the bulk of the population doing well in the cities and a small backward population that still has a lot of representatives, delegates and especially senators. You’ll feel like the early city dwellers 10 000 years ago who were harried by those who were still hunter-gatherers. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/36 "2019-02-15T16:00:06Z")
I want to point out that correlation does not equal causation in the study the OP cites. IT doesn’t follow that because a metric of race resentment increases in tune with gun ownership, then those people are necessarily buying guns BECAUSE of race resentment. My personal opinion, as influenced by growing up in a conservative, suburban middle/lower-middle class white area, is that they’re both a symptom of the same thing- fear. Fear of change, fear of the other (usually black people), and fear of losing what little socioeconomic standing they already have. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/37 "2019-02-15T19:12:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I know more than a few pro-choice pro-gun people. I am one so maybe I just know more people like that. I know many such. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/38 "2019-02-15T19:19:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I know many such. But are they pro-choice enough to flip and start writing the dreaded D in the ballot boxes? I’m of the opinion that most rural white conservatives aren’t single issue voters dependent only on guns. Gun restrictions of some type or another might be a deal-breaker for them, but that doesn’t mean that’s all they care about. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/39 "2019-02-15T19:36:26Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > But are they pro-choice enough to flip and start writing the dreaded D in the ballot boxes? > > I’m of the opinion that most rural white conservatives aren’t single issue voters dependent only on guns. Gun restrictions of some type or another might be a deal-breaker for them, but that doesn’t mean that’s all they care about. Obviously yes, of course. There are 95 million non-NRA gun owner voters in this nation. At least half of them voted Dem. And true, almost none of them are single issue voters. Propose any 'reasonable" gun law and they wont have a knee jerk reaction to it- they may or may not vote GOP based upon the law. Propose any gun law that would take _their own guns away-_ and you have lost their vote- and thus lost any chance of winning any national election. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504/40 "2019-02-16T02:14:40Z")
A party that wishes to win nationally cannot have much in the way of doctrine. The Democratic Party will have to have people on both sides of most issues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-abandoning-gun-control-will-not-help-them-win-the-votes-of-rural-whites/829504.md?page=3)