# The Democrats Emergency Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 5, 2019, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006 "2019-11-05T01:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/61 "2019-11-05T17:16:04Z")
Whether the next president wants Medicare for All or Medicare for All That Want It seems like a small issue. Whoever wins will need to be flexible and work with Congress on a bill that can pass and makes sense. The details really do not matter at that point, assuming they’re not advocating something ridiculous (Mexico will pay for the wall!). All the Democratic candidates would work to make things better, and Trump won’t. That’s the issue. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/62 "2019-11-05T17:16:12Z")
I think Mayor Pete is the centrist break in case of emergency candidate. Unfortunately Joe Biden is taking the wind out of his sails due to name recognition. That may change by Iowa. It would be nice if it came down to Buttigieg vs. Warren. IMHO that would be the best case scenario going forward from Super Tuesday through the end of the primaries. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/63 "2019-11-05T17:29:07Z")
Oh, and the notion of “Warren’s coronation” is ludicrous, given that a few months ago, it was Biden who was going to be “coronated”. Objection to Warren being “coronated” basically just amounts to objecting to the fact that, in the end, one candidate is going to win the primary. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/64 "2019-11-05T17:35:03Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …“consistent from Feb 2019” isn’t exactly what most people would call “consistent.” February was when he pivoted from Medicare For All to Medicare For All Who Want It. When asked back in 2018 “Can you affirmatively say that we need #MedicareForAll now and that insurance does not belong in healthcare?” Buttigieg responded: Since that “pivot” comes just a week after his exploratory committee and months before his actual campaign launch, I think a lot of people would call that consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/65 "2019-11-05T17:44:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Since that “pivot” comes just a week after his exploratory committee and months before his actual campaign launch, I think a lot of people would call that consistent. …a lot of people can think whatever they like. A lot of people see Mayor Pete as nothing but an empty suit. A lot more people think Biden or Warren should be the democratic nominee for President of the United States. To flip from “Medicare for all” to “not Medicare for all” in less than a year is a pretty big flip. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/66 "2019-11-05T17:48:46Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …a lot of people can think whatever they like. A lot of people see Mayor Pete as nothing but an empty suit. A lot more people think Biden or Warren should be the democratic nominee for President of the United States. To flip from “Medicare for all” to “not Medicare for all” in less than a year is a pretty big flip. It’s a minor flip. Very few people who favor one will have strong feelings against the other. (and among those that do have strong feelings, I’d bet they favor Pete’s proposal as less “threatening.”) Does a public option really turn people off enough to check out of the 2020 election? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/67 "2019-11-05T18:01:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s a minor flip. Very few people who favor one will have strong feelings against the other. (and among those that do have strong feelings, I’d bet they favor Pete’s proposal as less “threatening.”) Does a public option really turn people off enough to check out of the 2020 election? …the difference between universal coverage and non-universal coverage is not a “minor flip.” Its an entire paradigm. Yes: people have strong feelings about this. I’m surprised you’ve missed the healthcare debates on these boards alone, let alone the debates that have taken place in public. Pete’s entire schtick is to be “less threatening.” No big ideas, focus tested policies that are right-down-the-middle. And I’ve consistently said whomever gets the nomination should get the support. If Mayor Pete gets the nomination I’ll be happy to shut-up about him and would encourage everyone to back him. That doesn’t mean that I think his version of “a public option” would turn people off at the next election. It just means I personally think there are better options out there than his proposals. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/68 "2019-11-05T18:10:41Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the difference between universal coverage and non-universal coverage is not a “minor flip.” Its an entire paradigm. Yes: people have strong feelings about this. I’m surprised you’ve missed the healthcare debates on these boards alone, let alone the debates that have taken place in public. Pete’s entire schtick is to be “less threatening.” No big ideas, focus tested policies that are right-down-the-middle. > > And I’ve consistently said whomever gets the nomination should get the support. If Mayor Pete gets the nomination I’ll be happy to shut-up about him and would encourage everyone to back him. That doesn’t mean that I think his version of “a public option” would turn people off at the next election. It just means I personally think there are better options out there than his proposals. I can agree with that. There are probably better options from a policy perspective. I wish elections were about policy. I could happily vote for most of the current field (and would definitely vote for any of them, even Bernie, who gets the nominations) I guess my point is that by the time we get to January 2021, the next President will probably be advocating for the best program they think they can get through Congress, regardless of what they think the best hypothetical plan would be. Warren could shift to Pete’s plan, or vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/69 "2019-11-05T18:16:40Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I guess my point is that by the time we get to January 2021, the next President will probably be advocating for the best program they think they can get through Congress, regardless of what they think the best hypothetical plan would be. Warren could shift to Pete’s plan, or vice versa. …Warren isn’t going to shift to Pete’s healthcare plan. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/70 "2019-11-05T18:38:22Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Warren isn’t going to shift to Pete’s healthcare plan. Congress might. Is she going to veto it? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/71 "2019-11-05T18:38:30Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …a lot of people can think whatever they like. A lot of people see Mayor Pete as nothing but an empty suit. A lot more people think Biden or Warren should be the democratic nominee for President of the United States. To flip from “Medicare for all” to “not Medicare for all” in less than a year is a pretty big flip. And it isn’t just the flip, but that he’s attacked other candidates for supporting it, when a year ago, that was his stated position. It’s one thing to change one’s mind, but if you held a particular position a year ago, you at least ought to consider it a reasonable position for others to take, even though you’ve abandoned it. And if you’ve swung so far that you no longer consider your last year’s position even reasonable for others to hold, then boy howdy, you sure were an idiot a year ago, why should we think you’re smart now? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/72 "2019-11-05T18:47:42Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Congress might. Is she going to veto it? …Congress isn’t Warren. Congress aren’t going to adopt a barely thought-out-plan from the guy who will probably eventually rank maybe fourth or fifth in the race for the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/73 "2019-11-05T18:55:58Z")
Somehow I picture **asahi** with several men in black leather jackets behind him speaking in clumsy English, “_Emergency. Everybody to get from street. Emergency. Everybody to get from street._” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/74 "2019-11-05T19:03:40Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Whether the next president wants Medicare for All or Medicare for All That Want It seems like a small issue. Whoever wins will need to be flexible and work with Congress on a bill that can pass and makes sense. The details really do not matter at that point, … Thank you for the refreshing common-sense. All the hand-wringing over M4A details is just silly at this point. ```auto [quote="Banquet_Bear, post:60, topic:843006"] ...we are approaching the endgame here ... [/QUOTE] I'm NOT saying you're wrong. But there's something profoundly counter-productive about our political system if, with the election still 12 months away, we're in the "end-game." In the olden days, candidates were often not selected until the summer conventions. ``` As for a possible Draft Michelle Obama movement: (1) I realize it’s a dreadfully unlikely long-shot. (2) While decorum might require that Madame President sit behind the desk, we could expect the First Husband to provide major campaign help and Presidential advice. (3) It does NOT strike me as far-fetched that next November Trump would have a 65% chance against Warren or an enfeebled Biden but only 25% against Michelle. (4) Of course she doesn’t want the job. Duh. But with the odds just mentioned and guessing $3 trillion as the cost to America and the world of four more years of Trump, for her to run _ **would be her gift to humanity with a value of over a trillion dollars.** _ At one stroke she would become the greatest philanthropist in all of history. (I think $3 trillion is a very low _under-estimate_ of the cost of a second Trump term, when climate change, geopolitics and America’s own growing inequities are all considered. Recall that Dubya wasted trillions just with his Iraq misadventure.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/75 "2019-11-05T19:17:53Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Let’s face facts: as things right now, the Democrats are in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Biden is too old. Warren and Sanders are too radical. Castro, Booker, and Harris are too identity-ish. Klobuchar too bland. Buttigieg too gay\*. > > Is there anyone else out there we could nominate? > > - I don’t mean that being gay is an issue with me, but it is going to be an issue with some social conservatives who happen to be Democrats. Biden isnt too old, but if you keep saying that, over & over & over, it \*will \*play into the hands of the GOP and kremlin and give Trump a second term. They, I am certain, appreciate your efforts on their behalf. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/76 "2019-11-05T19:19:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You mean the one person in all of history to lose an election to Donald Trump? Actually there were several. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/77 "2019-11-05T19:22:15Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > Elizabeth Warren is 70 YO. And in my opinion, too old. trump is 73 years old, but we dont hear the GOP saying he is too old. Perhaps we Dems should take a page from their book and not attack our own candidates based upon crap like this. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/78 "2019-11-05T19:25:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > trump is 73 years old, but we dont hear the GOP saying he is too old. > > Perhaps we Dems should take a page from their book and not attack our own candidates based upon crap like this. I agree. I have a generic preference for someone younger, but all of the “old” candidates are light years ahead of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/79 "2019-11-05T19:25:22Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > asahi is in a sweaty panic because there’s no far-right republican who democrats love. [The op] is irrational politically and out of touch when it comes to the facts that the electorate plug into when they make a decision. > … Or, is he actually wanting trump to win, posting stuff like this over and over? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006/80 "2019-11-05T19:27:59Z")
[QUOTE=Lamoral;21955389… I’ve said many many times I think Pete Buttigieg is the most likely to beat Trump, and I do not think being gay is as big of a liability as a lot of people think. This isn’t 1992, it’s not even 2002. Being gay isn’t a punchline anymore. It is WAY more accepted than it’s ever been.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but not in “Peoria”.☹ Mayor Pete is a great guy, and I hope America is ready for him in 2028. But not in 2020, sadly. He’s young and maybe after getting a senate seat or on the cabinet, he can take the electorate by storm in about a decade. Let’s hope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-democrats-emergency-thread/843006.md?page=5)