# The Designated Hitter: Abomination in the eyes of God? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 31, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247 "2012-01-31T00:57:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/61 "2012-01-31T19:14:21Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Because if his spot comes up the LOOGY has to bat. And of course the LOOGY has to field his position. But the LOOGY will never hit because his job is to face just one batter, maybe two. Isn’t it a shame when a pitcher has got a great game going and has to pulled in the bottom of the 7th for a pinch hitter because the game is tied? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/62 "2012-01-31T19:18:17Z")
I like both rules. That is, I like having some kind of distinction between the AL and the NL, especially with the continuing travesty of regular season interleague games. The different DH rules make the leagues mean something - otherwise why not just combine the leagues into eight divisions or something crazy like that. I grew up a Red Sox fan so the DH seems natural to me, and I cringe to see pitchers come to the plate. But I appreciate a good double-switch as much as anyone. So I can’t really get worked up about it, but I’d complain loudly if either league tried to change. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/63 "2012-01-31T19:23:20Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > But the LOOGY will never hit because his job is to face just one batter, maybe two. It happens, albeit rarely. > [@](#): > > Isn’t it a shame when a pitcher has got a great game going and has to pulled in the bottom of the 7th for a pinch hitter because the game is tied? This also happens pretty rarely. And no, it isn’t a shame - it’s part of the strategy of the game, determining whether the opportunity for runs now outweighs the potential allowance of runs in the future. > [@Skammer](#): > > I like both rules. That is, I like having some kind of distinction between the AL and the NL, especially with the continuing travesty of regular season interleague games. The different DH rules make the leagues mean something - otherwise why not just combine the leagues into eight divisions or something crazy like that. This is pretty reasonable. I do like that there is some distinction between the leagues. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/64 "2012-01-31T19:34:42Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Only American Football has taken it to the extreme of unique players for every position in every facet of the game. I don’t find that a more entertaining sport, and would hate to see baseball go that way. After nearly 40 years, the DH still hasn’t made its way to the NL, I think we can safely conclude that we’re not going to see Designated Fielders any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/65 "2012-01-31T19:36:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I hate the DH. It used to be that pitchers didn’t suck as bad at the plate as they do today (Earl Wilson, Detroit Tigers comes to mind). It’s just that every professional league except the NL has the DH, so pitchers don’t learn to hit in A ball, AA, or AAA. I miss the strategy- you have a scoreless game in the sixth. Your pitcher is due up first. Do you let him bat or change pitchers? Even the notoriously bad hitting pitchers get the occasional hit- I still remember Hank Aguirre of the Tigers hitting one over the centerfielder of the Yankees and the ball rolling to the monuments. It’s also extended some careers that shouldn’t be extended- if you’re too old to field or have hands like bricks, then either get the hell off the team or let the other team hit the ball your way. This is the biggest problem with the institution of the rule, and the single biggest issue with why pitchers of today are virtual black holes in the line-up. A guy who has a cannon arm now can sit in high school (although those kids still are usually one of the best overall hitters on the team.. because he’s one of the best athletes in the school). But, if you go to college, or go the minor league route, it can take 5-6 years to make the majors, and they haven’t hit that entire time. If you don’t have to hit, you don’t practice hitting. So thinking you can be a great hitter by stepping into the batter’s box after 10 years is not going to happen. And expectations of pitchers being able to hit have gone down the toilet, so there’s not a lot of pressure to improve. How long has the DH been around now, 25-30 years or more? (I’ll look it up, and probably feel older than ever). But when the pitcher did hit, some of them were very good. Look up Rick Wise’s stats (70’s pitcher with cardinals and phils, I think). For the Pirates, Jim Bibby and Don Robinson were actually used as pinch hitters in games, and with position players on the bench. These guys could hit and hit for power. That skill is gone. Put more emphasis on it, and pitchers will start to learn to hit again. Put a 7 figure incentive on it, and watch how fast it will improve! As for a pinch runner, what the hell are we doing? Turning baseball into my neighborhood wiffle ball games? Ghostman on first! Why use a runner at all if you are going to permit them to pinch run? Why risk someone pulling a muscle? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/66 "2012-01-31T19:36:33Z")
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/67 "2012-01-31T19:44:32Z")
Pitchers aren’t good at hitting because they get at most 90 PA. Many of those plate appearances call for bunts (10-20% of the time). From an investment perspective, it doesn’t make sense to spend a ton of time practicing your hitting when it could result in maybe a few extra hits a year, and the downside could be pretty severe. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/68 "2012-01-31T20:11:53Z")
Pitchers aren’t good at hitting because they don’t need to be to get the job. The same approach could be taken to the other positions and running. If hits were needed from pitchers they would learn how to hit, and teams would tolerate worse pitching. In fact, they should be quite good at picking up the pitch. And while it may be confirmation bias, I’ve seen a number of times where pitchers seem to get much better at hitting when their win is in jeopardy. Now of course would be the time for the ‘clutch hitting’ deniers to jump in. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/69 "2012-01-31T20:14:09Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > However, I would not be opposed to a DH in the National League because it’s used in every other league. Well, every league (that I can think of) except one - Little League. Of course, in LL, (a) your pitchers tend to be your best hitters, and (b) having a DH could cause problems with the “everybody plays 6 consecutive outs on defense” rule. > [@kunilou](#): > > So why not add a Designated Runner at the same time? Like they do (or at least used to (it might be a state-by-state rule now), and they do in softball) in high school, at least for the pitchers and catchers? (They’re called “courtesy runners”.) I remember Charles O. Finley once signed a player (Herb Washington) for the sole purpose of using him as a runner, and he tried to talk the AL into creating a “courtesy runner” rule so the player could be used without removing another player from the game. I am surprised the NL has not started using DH, as I am under the impression that the main reason the AL still uses them is, the position tends to be filled by older players whose fielding skills are deteriorated, so otherwise they would be out of jobs, and the players’ union is dead set against that. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/70 "2012-01-31T22:32:43Z")
> [@mkecane](#): > > I picture anyone who is anti-DH to be like Bob Costas or George Will… How DARE you compare me with George Will? And I am MUCH taller than Bob Costas. 😉 But I am loving this thread. It is completely incoherent to non-Yanks, and certain Canucks. And maybe some Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/71 "2012-01-31T22:56:59Z")
The Japanese Pacific League has the DH. The Central League doesn’t. I think in the Japan Series they use the home team’s rules. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/72 "2012-01-31T22:58:28Z")
Certain Canucks? 100% of the Canadian teams currently use the DH rule! And 100% of ex-Canadian teams do not use DH. You know why they left… In Japanese baseball, it’s roughly NL:Central League::AL:Pacific League, at least relating to DH. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/73 "2012-01-31T23:06:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The DH is a fine rule. Bullshit. > [@](#): > > It’s unfortunate that pitchers are ridiculously bad hitters, but that’s just the way the evolution of baseball has gone. I understand the purity aspect of letting pitchers hit but it’s a waste of one ninth of at bats. Why not give a man a chance to hit in the major leagues who can actually do something with it? Because that’s the way God set it up to be when He passed the rules of baseball down to an undeserving (and yet blessed by Divine Grace) Mankind. > [@](#): > > Baseball is a GAME, first and foremost, not some sort of Old Testament set of rules that we have to maintain. If a rule can be changed that will legitimately improve the game - meaning once you consider all the possible unintended consequences - then I say change the rule, and change it today. And the DH improves things. Actually, I believe the standard line from the heathens is that it’s a BUSINESS, not a GAME, but BULLSHIT anyway. It’s a religion. It (the DH abomination) does NOT improve the game; it undermines one of the many moral lessons we try to impart to our children: You EARN the Privilege Of Batting By Playing For Your Team On Defense. Because batting in a baseball game is the highest privilege that the world of athletics has to offer. OP: why the question mark in the title? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/74 "2012-01-31T23:09:24Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Well, I for one am glad this topic came up… finally we can come to a consensus over which rule of baseball is superior. It’s about time baseball fans hashed this out. > > Oh, and for my money NL baseball is “real” baseball. There, I’m sure that settled it. Yes. Yes, it did. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/75 "2012-01-31T23:14:55Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > So why not add a Designated Runner at the same time? > [@mkecane](#): > > Why not, actually? Why not add a Golden Snitch? Normal-looking baseball; umpire throws it into the game when he pulls it out of his chest protector. An accelerometer inside makes it light up the first time it gets hit by a baseball bat; if it’s a home run, it’s worth 150 points and the game is over. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/76 "2012-01-31T23:23:14Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > So, half the people prefer the dh, and and half the people hate it. If only there could be a reasonably workable solution that would give each side what they want. Well, there can’t be. The people who like it are wrong, and they’re just going to have to suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/77 "2012-01-31T23:25:38Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I like both rules. That is, I like having some kind of distinction between the AL and the NL, especially with the continuing travesty of regular season interleague games. We can discuss the abomination that is regular-season interleague play in another thread, but if the AL needs to distinguish itself from the NL, they can do what the ABA did and start using red-white-and-blue colors on their baseballs. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/78 "2012-01-31T23:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Jas09** : > Like it or not, lots of middle infielders can’t hit either. We still make them. And plenty of hitters can’t field, and we still make them do that too. It was my understanding that the DH was allowed to replace any single position in the lineup, so that if hypothetically you did have a Babe Ruth on the mound who really could hit, you could instead replace some other player. As it happens, on every AL team it really is the pitcher who’s the weakest hitter, so they’re always the one replaced, but it doesn’t _have_ to be that way. Am I mistaken? And to those objecting to the DH getting to hit without ever fielding: What if, instead of having a DH, we just had an 8-man rotation on offense, instead of a 9-man? So the pitcher could still sit out, but everyone who hits also plays defense (barring double-switch situations). Would that be acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/79 "2012-01-31T23:39:10Z")
NO! Neither are lights at Wrigley Field, btw. ETA: Well, lights in the restrooms are okay; I’m not an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/80 "2012-02-01T00:07:00Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I am surprised the NL has not started using DH, as I am under the impression that the main reason the AL still uses them is, the position tends to be filled by older players whose fielding skills are deteriorated, so otherwise they would be out of jobs, and the players’ union is dead set against that. You hit the nail on the head on why the DH will never leave the AL. No way will the Union let that go. The DH is great for the average salary statistics as well as keeping an older player stick around. The union lost a player a long time ago to the owners (the teams used to have to carry a 25 man roster… then in one of the negotiations, the players gave in to the owners with the "25 max, 24 min"rule. The owners naturally never carried that 25th man, and saved a salary. I think rosters are officially 24 man now). I don’t think the NL will adopt the rule. It’s become a strange quark of the game now, and neither side will ever give in. I am glad the NL won’t give in to the DH. I am biased no doubt, but I think NL baseball is better. The DH is one of the biggest reasons why. If the NL ever tossed out a trial balloon about adopting the DH, the George Wills of the world would come out screaming and swinging. > [@dropzone](#): > > How DARE you compare me with George Will? And I am MUCH taller than Bob Costas. 😉 That ain’t saying much. 🙂 I think the mayor of munchkin land is taller than Costas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247.md?page=5)