# The Designated Hitter: Abomination in the eyes of God? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 31, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247 "2012-01-31T00:57:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/141 "2012-02-03T01:11:08Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Since some posters are mentioning pitchers that can hit The fact that there are so few of them that their names, and performances that are exceptional only for not being horrible, come to mind speaks for itself. No, I wouldn’t rush back to the TV from a potty break to watch Micah Owings at bat, either. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/142 "2012-02-03T01:15:38Z")
kaylasdad99: > [@](#): > > Baseball isn’t “for” the fans; it’s “for” the people who go out on the field and play it. And they do that for whose gratification? Purely their own? Or to provide entertainment to paying customers, i.e., fans? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/143 "2012-02-03T01:31:32Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The only way to make the schedule “balanced” is to have no divisions and no playoffs, as it was prior to 1969. I’m good with a return to the 1969 borders. That’ll take care of the “lights at Wrigley Field” problem, too. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/144 "2012-02-03T01:36:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, I guess you’re so far from my thinking we’re speaking different languages. If it’s not “for” me, why am I paying them to go see it? I’m the customer. You’re the congregant. Think of the DH rule as Vatican II, Bud Selig as the False Pope, and me as a sedevacantist. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/145 "2012-02-03T01:37:50Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Can we add Baseball Fundamentalism to Poe’s Law? I can’t tell if this is real or a put-on. It’s real. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/146 "2012-02-03T02:16:09Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Professional Baseball is entertainment, pure and simple. The best way to sell entertainment is to have as many stars as possible playing for as many spectators as possible. Would the NBA have been better off if only Eastern fans could have ever seen Michael Jordan, or only Western fans Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? Since interleague play began in 1997, the Cardinals have played the Royals 66 times. They’ve played the Rangers exactly three times. If baseball is a religion, interleague play is the Mass with folk music. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/147 "2012-02-03T02:22:48Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Ok. Rick Wise career BA = .195. Avg. HRs over 162 game season = 5. > > Bibby: BA = .148, Avg. HRs over 162 games = 2 > Robinson: BA = .231, Avg. HRs over 162 games = 4 > > Ok, Robinson was a half-ways respectable hitter, but none of these guys really justifies the argument that pitchers deserve to hit because they once had skills. > > I actually don’t mind that the NL keeps their pitchers in the batting lineup. For one thing, it puts them at a (minor) disadvantage in the World Series. Sure they do. Ok, I admit that I thought the stats were a bit better (I assumed all had .200+ averages, for example), but I’ll wager if you take 5-7 of the best years the pitcher had on the mound, you might see better figures. If they are over the Mendoza line (.200), they were as productive as many shortstops in the league. And look at wise and robinsons power numbers. 5 homers a year average on what, 150-200 plate appearance? That’s pretty respectable. Most of those skinny shortstops could never hit 5 in a season. Look, I picked those pitchers out of my ass, 30 year old stats that they are. Maybe a better example would be Fernando. He was a great hitter when he first came in the league… I’m going to look his stats because the longer he pitched, the worse his hitting became, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/148 "2012-02-03T02:43:45Z")
I’m a bit mixed on this one. I have no problem with them currently counting in the standings. The argument that teams can have advantages over others is simply bogus. If the red sox and Yankees are fighting for first place, and the difference is one game, don’t whine to me about skewed schedules. You’ll never have balance, unless each team plays each other team under the exact same circumstances, including same pitchers, Line-ups, weather, day vs. Night, etc. The parameters are endless. As a baseball fan, I enjoy seeing the Pirates play American league teams. However, this is the one thing that used to make the world series special, so I wouldn’t mind seeing it go back to the way it was. Playing the other league was the reward for being the champions of your league. That is gone now. There are a few series that I do like, like the ny and chicago series. Maybe sf. And Oakland. Dodgers and angels. But that’s about it. The other match ups could go away tomorrow. The pirates dontnreally have a natural rivalry in the AL, and most teams are like this. I’d pick the orioles for the Pirates, but the league would put the O’s with the Nats, and probably stick the Pirates with the Indians. So if given a vote, I’d probably vote to get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/149 "2012-02-03T02:59:44Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Since interleague play began in 1997, the Cardinals have played the Royals 66 times. They’ve played the Rangers exactly three times. I could have sworn there was seven games played in 2011 alone… ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/150 "2012-02-03T03:26:54Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I could have sworn there was seven games played in 2011 alone… Interleague play is REGULAR SEASON!!! :rolleyes: Or are you (as I suspect) being intentionally dense/dickish? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/151 "2012-02-03T03:34:33Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > It’s good for the fans. Fuck the fans. The stats are all that matter. Which is why I love Nate Silver. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/152 "2012-02-03T05:31:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Speaking of doubleheaders, how come I’ve never been to an NFL doubleheader? > > It’s like they hate America or something. The Browns used to have a pre-season double header every year. It was four different teams though. The first one (claimed to be the first pro-football double header) was in 1962 and featured Detroit against Dallas and Pittsburgh against Cleveland. They had one every year through 1971 and sold out every year I think. The stadium held about 80,000 for football. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/153 "2012-02-03T07:48:53Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Well, every league (that I can think of) except one - Little League. Of course, in LL, (a) your pitchers tend to be your best hitters, and (b) having a DH could cause problems with the “everybody plays 6 consecutive outs on defense” rule. I once covered a youth league baseball game that included an unusual variation that they called an “extra hitter.” It was basically a designated hitter that was tacked onto the batting order instead of replacing someone in the order. I remember being a little irked because I had whipped up some forms to do the scoring that included the usual nine slots for batters, and now I discovered that I needed a tenth slot for this crazy “extra hitter” thing. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/154 "2012-02-03T13:06:29Z")
kunilou: > [@](#): > > Since interleague play began in 1997, the Cardinals have played the Royals 66 times. They’ve played the Rangers exactly three times. Sure, because there’s a perception - very possibly a correct one - that fans will flock to see local (or, failing that ability, broader-regional) rivalry games more than any other type of interleague matchup. And three times certainly beats the zero times that they played them in the prior 25 years. I’m not saying that they’ve found the perfect way to distribute interleague games yet, I’m just saying that exposing all the stars to all the fans in some manner is better entertainment business than half the stars being entirely denied to most of the fans (those who don’t live in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, or the Bay Area, and aren’t able to travel much). ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/155 "2012-02-03T14:13:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But there’s no difference between that and having an in-league divisional system where you play teams in your own division more often, or are stuck in a division with stronger opponents. How fair was it that the 1993 Giants had the Braves (inexplicably) in their division? Surely the Phillies got a break that year? > > The only way to make the schedule “balanced” is to have no divisions and no playoffs, as it was prior to 1969. I disagree that an unbalanced schedule featuring stronger teams from the other league is the same as having an unbalanced schedule featuring strong teams from within your own division. The Red Sox and Yankees are directly battling for a playoff spot. One can take a spot from the other. It makes sense they would face each other more often. Such is not the case with the Yankees/Mets or Red Sox/Phillies. > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I’m a bit mixed on this one. > > I have no problem with them currently counting in the standings. The argument that teams can have advantages over others is simply bogus. If the red sox and Yankees are fighting for first place,\*\* and the difference is one game\*\*, don’t whine to me about skewed schedules. Bolding mine. The total difference is 3 games where the Yankees played the weak Mets, the Rays played the even weaker Marlins and the Sox played the much stronger Phillies. Three games is huge in an MLB season. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/156 "2012-02-04T01:35:45Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The Browns used to have a pre-season double header every year. It was four different teams though. The first one (claimed to be the first pro-football double header) was in 1962 and featured Detroit against Dallas and Pittsburgh against Cleveland. They had one every year through 1971 and sold out every year I think. The stadium held about 80,000 for football. That’s not a doubleheader. A doubleheader is where two teams play a game; then when it’s over, they play another one. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/157 "2012-02-04T03:17:59Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Interleague play is REGULAR SEASON!!! :rolleyes: Or are you (as I suspect) being intentionally dense/dickish? [Moderating] This is not the Pit. Personal attacks aren’t tolerated here. Tone it down, please. No warning. Thanks, RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/158 "2012-02-04T04:01:20Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Bolding mine. The total difference is 3 games where the Yankees played the weak Mets, the Rays played the even weaker Marlins and the Sox played the much stronger Phillies. Three games is huge in an MLB season. no question. but there are a couple of problems with your particular example. The Mets and Yankees play every year, I believe. This is demanded by the fans and the league, I suppose gives in. Its a revenue generator, that’s for sure. And the Mets are usually one of the top 5 or so teams in the league vis-a-vis spending, so on paper, at least, the Mets should be pretty good. No argument from me that they stunk, but the schedules are made up before the season starts, and they can’t simply account for injuries, rainouts, changes to pitching rotations, etc. And didn’t the Pirates take 2 of 3 or 3 of 3 from the Red Sox last year before the all-star break? That had to be an interleague series the red sox were looking forward to, and they were beat by the worst interleague team in history. So, sorry… the moral of my story is it really doesn’t matter to me. You handle your business on the field, you will be fine. And if the Yankees-Mets rivalry chaps your ass, you should complain to the league. I think it’s a valid complaint, and if enough people pointed out what you have, maybe the Yankees and Mets would cancel their interleague games every year. (don’t hold your breath) ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/159 "2012-02-04T04:43:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > [Moderating] > > This is not the Pit. Personal attacks aren’t tolerated here. Tone it down, please. > > No warning. > > Thanks, > > RickJay > Moderator My apologies, 🙂 The second adjective was over the line. :o ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247/160 "2012-02-04T20:50:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That’s not a doubleheader. A doubleheader is where two teams play a game; then when it’s over, they play another one. While I tend to agree with you, they always billed it as a double header just as the networks now bill those Sunday back-to-back broadcasts as double headers and those aren’t even in the same city. It was two games for one admission charge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-designated-hitter-abomination-in-the-eyes-of-god/611247.md?page=7)