# "The desire to procreate may be our very reason for being." **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535 "2008-11-19T21:52:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/1 "2008-11-19T21:52:18Z")
In a recent thread someone post the following: > [@](#): > > But seriously, I think an argument can be made that we eat and breathe in the service of our sexuality. The desire to procreate may be our very reason for being. I view this as ridiculous, because I don’t know any person who thinks in this manner. I believe that we breath because our bodies need air and eat because our bodies need food. When I eat my dinner tonight, I’m not going to be thinking about sex. Neither are most other people, as best I can tell. (Of course one may argue that we do all these things in service of our sexuality unconsciously, but that moves the statement outside the realm of the provable.) As a further argument, persons who choose to center their lives around their sexuality are looked down on, not up to. Porn-addicted losers are looked on as, well, porn-addicted losers. Their inability to contain their sexuality and view it as one priority among many is seen as a flaw. By contrast, no one sees an absense of horniness as a sign of inferiority in a person. We don’t fault Saint Francis of Assisi, Gandhi, or Jane Austen for not having enough sex. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/2 "2008-11-19T21:56:25Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I believe that we breath because our bodies need air and eat because our bodies need food. The only reason you need a body is to schlepp your genitals around. Name one thing your body does besides procreate that will survive after it is dead. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/3 "2008-11-19T21:57:00Z")
Each of us, as an individual, determines his own “reason for being.” As a species, we’d in fact be better off if there were a little \*less \*procreation going on. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/4 "2008-11-19T21:59:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The only reason you need a body is to schlepp your genitals around. Name one thing your body does besides procreate that will survive after it is dead. Since when is post-mortem the criterion for life’s purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/5 "2008-11-19T22:01:46Z")
Arguments are often made that all our our instincts go towards preservation of our genetic material, first through preservation of the current carrier of that material (oneself) and second through creation of offspring to carry on at least half of that genetic material into the future. Leaving aside humans for the moment, those species are most successful who can do both of those well. Humans happened to develop self-awareness, and so have developed other motivations in addition to instinct. However, hunger, thirst and sexual appetite are all recognized as among the strongest short-term motivators that we possess. That is how I interpret the statement in question. And I think it is true as far as it goes (e.g. as an answer for “why are we here?”) but it totally ignores a human’s ability to override instinct as a short-term motivator to achieve long-term goals. In other words, I exist because of the strength of those instincts. But the values I express through my actions are, I hope, on a different level much of the time. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/6 "2008-11-19T22:12:38Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Since when is post-mortem the criterion for life’s purpose? Because mastering _Halo 3_ seems rather trivial by comparison. Subjective, I know. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/7 "2008-11-19T22:12:48Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Since when is post-mortem the criterion for life’s purpose? From an evolutionary standpoint, it is. The purpose of life is to spread one’s genetic material as far as possible- to have as many offspring (that survive long enough to have offspring of their own) as you can, before dying to leave room for the next generation. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/8 "2008-11-19T22:13:39Z")
I found it comforting (and still do, in fact) when the reality of my existence finally became perfectly clear to me – that is, I’m the result of over 2 billion years of atomic particles bumping around in order to accidentally, yet inevitably, create a machine that’s as effective as possible at making more copies of itself. Not because there’s any special reason for a machine to make more copies of itself, but rather because machines that don’t do this don’t make the historical record, and since I’m here, I’m clearly evident of the history of this mechanism. I am simply an example of the machine that works best (so far) at existing. And in that sense, I agree with the quote in the OP, that I exist because my ancestors were effective fuckers. But, see, I’m the type of person who’s “reason for being” needs to be definable as “why do I physically exist right now,” and that’s what sets me at peace. Other people, like **ITR Champion** , I imagine, consider themselves to have an entirely different “reason for being,” specifically some religous purpose, and therefore find the thought of existing solely because of 2 billion years of success at fucking to be somewhat repugnant. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/9 "2008-11-19T22:16:20Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > From an evolutionary standpoint, it is. The purpose of life is to spread one’s genetic material as far as possible- to have as many offspring (that survive long enough to have offspring of their own) as you can, before dying to leave room for the next generation. Speak for yourself. I am more than an evolutionary cog. My choice not to procreate doesn’t nullify my life’s significance. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/10 "2008-11-19T22:28:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I view this as ridiculous, because I don’t know any person who thinks in this manner. I think the idea that religion has not played a large part in the discrimination/repression of homosexuals is ridiculous, because I don’t know any person who thinks in this manner. > [@](#): > > I believe that we breath because our bodies need air and eat because our bodies need food. Why does your body need air and food? > [@](#): > > As a further argument, persons who choose to center their lives around their sexuality are looked down on, not up to. Not so. People who are very actively sexually are usually looked up to, and even idolized. Hugh Heffner comes to mind. > [@](#): > > Porn-addicted losers are looked on as, well, porn-addicted losers. And that would be because porn is a sex _substitute_, not actually sex. > [@](#): > > By contrast, no one sees an absense of horniness as a sign of inferiority in a person. We don’t fault Saint Francis of Assisi, Gandhi, or Jane Austen for not having enough sex. Actually, people who are totally asexual are quite often viewed as weird. People who have voluntarily given up sex in pursuit of another cause don’t really count, because they don’t necessarily have an absence of horniness, they just supress what horniness they do have. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/11 "2008-11-19T22:32:26Z")
Scientifically speaking, none of has any reason for being. That being said, we would not need to eat if we didn’t procreate, because we wouldn’t be alive. So I can see the reasoning behind the first statement. The second statement isn’t a scientific statement. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/12 "2008-11-19T22:41:24Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > However, hunger, thirst and sexual appetite are all recognized as among the strongest short-term motivators that we possess. I seem to recall that our primary motivators, at the root of it all, are the four F’s: Food Flight Fuck Fight (In that order too I think) Of course we are more complex than that but ultimately, as animals, we have the base instincts still there. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/13 "2008-11-19T23:17:56Z")
That was my quote used in the OP. Two themes in the responses to this thread struck me as interesting. There seems to be some agreement that sexuality plays a role in our evolutionary strategy. I’d characterize that as long-term motivation. It was also mentioned as one of the strong short-term motivators. Perhaps it’s both. Either way, sexuality is a strong motivator for most people. That was one of my points in the earlier thread, and it’s part of why I advocate for much easier access to strong methods of birth control. How this discussion brings us around to porn-addicted losers and Jane Austen, I don’t know. I’m a bit baffled that the suggestion of sexuality being a prime motivator in the life of humans is somehow offensive or distasteful. Incidentally, does it matter for the purpose of this discussion if I point out that I have chosen not to have children? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/14 "2008-11-19T23:48:22Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Speak for yourself. I am more than an evolutionary cog. My choice not to procreate doesn’t nullify my life’s significance. In a sense, procreation (the activity that my ancestors engaged in) is my reason for being. It’s the reason I’m here right now. But it doesn’t have to dictate what I do now or in the future. I’m an anti-natalist. I think it would be morally preferable if no more humans were made and as a result, the human race went extinct. The purpose of our lives is whatever we want it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/15 "2008-11-19T23:57:25Z")
Well, it’s really all just the fault of them selfish genes that figured they’d make the whole compete and copy thing more interesting by growing giant fleshy battlemechs, and now here I am wasting away in front of my PC with a half-empty bottle of beer and the curious feeling that nobody really thought this business through in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/16 "2008-11-20T00:30:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > When I eat my dinner tonight, I’m not going to be thinking about sex. Well, that makes one of us. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/17 "2008-11-20T00:33:49Z")
A chicken is just an egg’s way of making another egg. ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/18 "2008-11-20T00:53:56Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > From an evolutionary standpoint, it is. The purpose of life is to spread one’s genetic material as far as possible- to have as many offspring (that survive long enough to have offspring of their own) as you can, before dying to leave room for the next generation. I don’t understand this. Evolution is not a moral code or a religion. It’s just a scientific fact, and it doesn’t care one way or the other what you do with your life, because there’s no ‘consciousness’ to care about it. It’s like saying that the ‘purpose’ of gravity is to have us all lying on the ground prostate - it’s meaningless. On the other hand, you can consciously make a choice to have a dozen or more children, having either you or your female partner constantly pregnant (or, for that matter, multiple female partners). It doesn’t make you a ‘more complete human’ evolution-wise, or a ‘less complete human’. It almost certainly won’t even make a dint in evolution or human history as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/19 "2008-11-20T01:09:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Scientifically speaking, none of has any reason for being. Right. “Reason” is a construct of human consciousness. The first first lifeform became the second lifeform (oversimplifying here) because–and ONLY because–it reproduced itself. It’s somewhat tautological, but scientifically speaking, procreation is the “first principle” of life, because it’s the dealbreaker, survivalwise. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535/20 "2008-11-20T01:27:15Z")
It’s a sneaky trick to use the term “reason for being” here. In one sense, yes, sex is our reason for being - but not _us_ having sex. Our parents and prior ancestors back until it wasn’t done sexually, _their_ sex is the reason we exist (ie, the _cause_ of our existence). An equally correct answer to the question is “because your weren’t killed by a car as a child,” but most people recognize that this doesn’t mean one should dedicate themselves to the destruction of cars. This of course has nothing whatsoever to do with what people _usually_ mean when they get all starry-eyed and whisper at the stars “why am I here?”. The answer to that is probably “because your parents wanted a child to fulfil some practical, social, or psychological need _they_ had.” Of course, some people want somehting bigger than their parents’ desires to measure their lives against. In that case, the answer is probably “No reason”. The universe did not create you with any sort of deliberate purpose; it actually just sort of spat you out as it went along its business without any awareness or intent regarding you at all. Though, there is a slim chance that the the FSM created you with the intent that you become a pirate. (You should get right on that.) I hope it’s clear by now, the idea that the universe is steering you to have kids and that that’s what you’re here for is poppycock. Yes, we have a drive to have sex, but we also have a drive to eat and a drive to poop and a drive to breathe and a drive to not get poked with pointy sticks. And claiming that one of these urges is somehow dominant over the others is further nonsense - it’s equally correct to say that the reason you are here is that your parents ate and shat and breathed and avoided pointy sticks enough to live long enough to continue the line - and failing any of those would have been precisely as effective in aborting you as failing to screw. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desire-to-procreate-may-be-our-very-reason-for-being/473535.md?page=2)