# The desperation of less educated Whites: drug deaths, suicides, politics **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416 "2016-01-17T17:28:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/41 "2016-01-18T00:49:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > So you’ve got nothing to back up your position. Do you have an actual critique of the article I posted? Or are you waiting for Bill O’Reilly to tell you what to think about it? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/42 "2016-01-18T00:51:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Do you have an actual critique of the article I posted? Or are you waiting for Bill O’Reilly to tell you what to think about it? Can YOU back up your article, seeing as you are the one who posted it? It’s your job, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/43 "2016-01-18T00:51:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Do you have an actual critique of the article I posted? Or are you waiting for Bill O’Reilly to tell you what to think about it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/44 "2016-01-18T00:55:09Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It can’t be both. If “rich people” are making so much money off of the drug trade, why would they try and limit it? What makes you think they’re trying to limit it? As opposed to maintaining an incarceration rate that has half of all federal prisoners in there for drug offenses, which has made exactly zero difference to the rate of drug abuse. How many of those arrested for drug offenses do you think get treatment as opposed to simply being thrown in jail (hint: very, very few). In fact 65 percent of the nation’s inmates meet medical criteria for substance abuse and addiction. The United States has less than five percent of the world’s population and consumes two-thirds of the world’s illegal drugs and incarcerates almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners with pretty much no effect whatsoever. Seems to me that if you want to make tons of money from the drug trade and don’t want to do anything about it, things are unfolding just as they should. Cites: > **[The Drug War And Mass Incarceration By The Numbers](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/drug-war-mass-incarceration_n_3034310)** > > The Drug War And Mass Incarceration By The Numbers [http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/40/3/E11.full](http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/40/3/E11.full) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/45 "2016-01-18T01:05:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Can YOU back up your article, seeing as you are the one who posted it? It’s your job, not mine. War on Drugs profitable: [1](https://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-rich-off-the-drug-w) [2](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/02/17/the-drug-wars-profit-motive/) [3](http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/how-profits-help-drive-the-war-drugs) [4](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/archive/whoprofits.html) [5](http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Forfeiture#sthash.d74Es3is.dpbs) Drug War & Incarceration & Private Prisons [1](http://www.fear.org/chicago.html) [2](http://anthonycolpo.com/10-ways-the-war-on-drugs-is-a-wild-success/) [3](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/presumed-guilty-how-prisons-profit-the) [4](http://www.hermes-press.com/prisons_drugs.htm) [5](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/09/for-profit-prisons-are-bad-but-the-drug-war-is-the-problem.html) Drugs & The CIA [1](http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-drug-lords-a-brief-history-of-cia-involvement-in-the-drug-trade/10013) [2](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/cia.html) [3](http://humansarefree.com/2015/02/overwhelming-evidence-that-cia-is.html) [4](http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/index.html) [5](https://www.rt.com/usa/194992-cia-crack-scandal-webb/) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/46 "2016-01-18T01:12:00Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes, but apart from banks, who makes money off of the illegal sales of drugs? I understand/agree that the war on drugs is profitable… You strike me as a halfway intelligent person. So I’m confused. Do you think the profits get distributed evenly among low-level drug dealers? Do you think the drug trade is just a big ole cooperative? What do you think of when you think “drug kingpin”? I know I think of someone who is so far removed from the business that he appears to be downright respectable. The kind of [person](http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2012/08/14/ap-ties-mitt-romney-marco-rubio-convicted-drug-dealer) who might actually have friends in high places. The Mexican drug cartel isn’t known for being a peaceful bunch. They’ve got a pretty powerful arsenal, I’m guessing. [Who do you think would lose out if those guys were to stop fighting?](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/03/made-in-the-usa-the-role-of-american-guns-in-mexican-violence/274103/) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/47 "2016-01-18T01:17:08Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > What makes you think they’re trying to limit it? **monstro said they did** If “rich people” are trying to make money off of drugs, they wouldn’t simultaneously launch a war on their product. It doesn’t make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/48 "2016-01-18T01:17:23Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You strike me as a halfway intelligent person. So I’m confused. Do you think the profits get distributed evenly among low-level drug dealers? Do you think the drug trade is just a big ole cooperative? > > What do you think of when you think “drug kingpin”? I know I think of someone who is so far removed from the business that he appears to be downright respectable. The kind of [person](http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2012/08/14/ap-ties-mitt-romney-marco-rubio-convicted-drug-dealer) who might actually have friends in high places. > > The Mexican drug cartel isn’t known for being a peaceful bunch. They’ve got a pretty powerful arsenal, I’m guessing. [Who do you think would lose out if those guys were to stop fighting?](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/03/made-in-the-usa-the-role-of-american-guns-in-mexican-violence/274103/) Yes, but that is like comparing… Well, I’m sure bankers and high level real estate brokers and people who sell expensive cars and watches all welcome the $$$ drug dealers bring them… but that does not mean they help run the illegal drug trade. I’m just trying to have an accurate understanding of what is going on… ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/49 "2016-01-18T01:19:06Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > **monstro said they did** > > If “rich people” are trying to make money off of drugs, they wouldn’t simultaneously launch a war on their product. It doesn’t make any sense. 1- perhaps its two - different - sets of rich people. 2- perhaps it is the same set, but, it is more profitable, for some reason, to have drugs illegal than legal. I’m sure you can sell them for more profit if they are illegal. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/50 "2016-01-18T01:24:50Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I would like to add this [cite](http://www.pewforum.org/2003/11/18/part-1-opinion-of-homosexuals/)from the pew research center to show that perhaps people of one area or religion do do necessarily all agree, and they may have beliefs and feeling that are contradictory. If somehow what I posted implied an “all less educated Whites are …” then I am sorry. Rather it is the sort of sorts of things that your cite actually demonstrates: > [@your cite](#): > > … opinions of those with less education are considerably more negative. There also are regional differences in attitudes toward homosexuals, with people in the East and West expressing the most positive views of gay men and lesbians. And there is a significant difference between urban and rural areas of the country, with unfavorable views much more intense in the latter … Less educated Whites are [more likely](http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/PRRI-AVS-2015.pdf) than college educated Whites to endorse a host of other beliefs as well: immigrants bear most of the blame for our economic woes; America’s best days are past; Islam is incompatible with American values; discrimination against whites has become as big a problem today as discrimination against blacks and other minorities; voting doesn’t matter. As noted in the op less educated Whites, especially males, are more likely to kill themselves both intentionally and by drug overdose. Of course not every less educated White male is suicidal! But [the “White working class” is the most pessimistic group in America.](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/the-white-working-class-the-most-pessimistic-group-in-america/239584/) > [@The Atlantic 2011](#): > > … whites who have not completed college remain the backbone of many, if not most, communities and workplaces across the country. > > They are also, polls consistently tell us, the most pessimistic and alienated group in American society. > > The latest measure of this discontent came in a thoughtful national survey on economic opportunity released last week by the Pew Charitable Trusts’ Economic Mobility Project. If numbers could scream, they would probably sound like the poll’s results among working-class whites. > > One question asked respondents whether they expected to be better off economically in 10 years than they are today. Two-thirds of blacks and Hispanics said yes, as did 55 percent of college-educated whites; just 44 percent of noncollege whites agreed. Asked if they were better off than their parents were at the same age, about three-fifths of college-educated whites, African-Americans, and Hispanics said they were. But blue-collar whites divided narrowly, with 52 percent saying yes and a head-turning 43 percent saying no. (The survey, conducted from March 24 through 29, surveyed 2,000 adults and has a margin of error of ±3.4 percent.) > > What makes these results especially striking is that minorities were as likely as blue-collar whites to report that they have been hurt by the recession. The actual unemployment rate is considerably higher among blacks and Hispanics than among blue-collar whites, much less college-educated whites. > > Yet, minorities were more optimistic about the next generation than either group of whites, the survey found. In the most telling result, 63 percent of African-Americans and 54 percent of Hispanics said they expected their children to exceed their standard of living. Even college-educated whites are less optimistic (only about two-fifths agree). But the noncollege whites are the gloomiest: Just one-third of them think their kids will live better than they do; an equal number think their children won’t even match their living standard. No other group is nearly that negative. > [@Robert163](#): > > “We are all in this together”. This is pretty much the antithesis of the republican party platform. Yeah? I’m not a Republican. Are you? Now maybe a mainstream GOP person has a different motivation to address these issues than I do. Maybe for them it is a question that concerns the very identity of the party and impacts their ability to accomplish other items on their agenda … not possible if they are not steering their party’s ship. Or maybe they care about the well-being of at least some others as well. Their motivation is up to them, but we all should be able to agree that the alienation, anger, and pessimistic view of their own and of our collective futures, of much of the less educated White demographic is not good for any of us, including to our political hopes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/51 "2016-01-18T01:29:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > **monstro said they did** > > If “rich people” are trying to make money off of drugs, they wouldn’t simultaneously launch a war on their product. It doesn’t make any sense. What, no comment on the actual facts I posted in #44 wherein it makes absolutely perfect sense? There’s a somewhat similar dichotomy, for entirely different reasons, related to undocumented immigrants. Wealthy Republicans running for office make all the right noises about ending the “scourge” of illegal immigration in order to appeal to the rubes, and then hire those very same illegals as gardeners, housekeepers, nannies, and low-paid business help. Try to keep up with current events. Hypocrisy is a fairly widespread phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/52 "2016-01-18T01:36:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yeah? I’m not a Republican. Are you? > > Now maybe a mainstream GOP person has a different motivation to address these issues than I do. Maybe for them it is a question that concerns the very identity of the party and impacts their ability to accomplish other items on their agenda … not possible if they are not steering their party’s ship. Or maybe they care about the well-being of at least some others as well. Their motivation is up to them, but we all should be able to agree that the alienation, anger, and pessimistic view of their own and of our collective futures, of much of the less educated White demographic is not good for any of us, including to our political hopes. I do agree. But if you take note I did not respond until you pointed out how poor uneducated whites felt “alienated” from more progressive, more educated people(s). It is this celebration of ignorance, Duck Dynasty and Mike Huckabee, that annoys me. As far as personality, Huckabee seems to be ok/good, a decent person. It’s his politics I find suspect. The Duck Dynasty people, when not acting stupid on purpose for the camera, seem to be ok/decent people. Again, removed from their political POV. I guess a lot of small town people are like that. But, bad ideas are bad ideas. Pride in ignorance is always bad. So is distrust of “intellectuals”. And people who have no/little compassion for the difficulties of others really don’t seem to deserve much compassion. Even if they have no malice, indifference has an (almost) as bad an effect. And, I do have compassion for rural poor white people. Suffering is suffering. But I don’t have the same level of compassion or consideration as I do for poor minorities or people with disabilities or some similar situation. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/53 "2016-01-18T01:52:30Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Well, I’m sure bankers and high level real estate brokers and people who sell expensive cars and watches all welcome the $$$ drug dealers bring them… but that does not mean they help run the illegal drug trade. It means they have a vested interest in the drug trade. It means that they are going to feel very different about the drug trade than someone who has literally been awash in the blood resulting from drug-related violence. And you better believe that when people have a vested interest in something and they also have political power, they don’t vote against those interests. They only vote to increase those interests. Politicians and their friends are much smarter than the rest of us in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/54 "2016-01-18T01:56:43Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It means they have a vested interest in the drug trade. It means that they are going to feel very different about the drug trade than someone who has literally been awash in the blood resulting from drug-related violence. Yeah, I agree > [@](#): > > And you better believe that when people have a vested interest in something and they also have political power, they don’t vote against those interests. They only vote to increase those interests. Politicians and their friends are much smarter than the rest of us in that regard. Yeah. My landlord is a state senator. He also owns 2 liquor stores. I wonder… is he likely to vote for or against legalization of marijuana? I doubt he would vote for it, it would cut into his alcohol sales. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/55 "2016-01-18T02:13:42Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > If somehow what I posted implied an “all less educated Whites are …” then I am sorry. > > Rather it is the sort of sorts of things that your cite actually demonstrates:Less educated Whites are [more likely](http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/PRRI-AVS-2015.pdf) than college educated Whites to endorse a host of other beliefs as well: immigrants bear most of the blame for our economic woes; America’s best days are past; Islam is incompatible with American values; discrimination against whites has become as big a problem today as discrimination against blacks and other minorities; voting doesn’t matter. As noted in the op less educated Whites, especially males, are more likely to kill themselves both intentionally and by drug overdose. Of course not every less educated White male is suicidal! But [the “White working class” is the most pessimistic group in America.](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/the-white-working-class-the-most-pessimistic-group-in-america/239584/) > Yeah? I’m not a Republican. Are you? > > Now maybe a mainstream GOP person has a different motivation to address these issues than I do. Maybe for them it is a question that concerns the very identity of the party and impacts their ability to accomplish other items on their agenda … not possible if they are not steering their party’s ship. Or maybe they care about the well-being of at least some others as well. Their motivation is up to them, but we all should be able to agree that the alienation, anger, and pessimistic view of their own and of our collective futures, of much of the less educated White demographic is not good for any of us, including to our political hopes. Islam is somewhat incompatible with American values. What have they done for the country right now? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/56 "2016-01-18T02:15:36Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > Islam is somewhat incompatible with American values. What have they done for the country right now? I understand that “New York values” are incompatible with American values, too. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/57 "2016-01-18T02:41:00Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I understand that “New York values” are incompatible with American values, too. :rolleyes: New York laws are incompatible with New York Values sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/58 "2016-01-18T03:41:21Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wealthy Republicans running for office make all the right noises about ending the “scourge” of illegal immigration in order to appeal to the rubes, and then hire those very same illegals as gardeners, housekeepers, nannies, and low-paid business help. CITE? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/59 "2016-01-18T04:00:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > CITE? How about [your own freaking former presidential candidate](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/12/05/more_immigrant_woes_for_romney_1196840293/?page=full)? The guy that wants to run the place as chief executive of the nation and commander in chief. Does it get any more blatant than that? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416/60 "2016-01-18T04:08:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > How about [your own freaking former presidential candidate](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/12/05/more_immigrant_woes_for_romney_1196840293/?page=full)? The guy that wants to run the place as chief executive of the nation and commander in chief. Does it get any more blatant than that? Don’t ascribe opinions to me that I do not hold. He wasn’t “my” candidate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-desperation-of-less-educated-whites-drug-deaths-suicides-politics/743416.md?page=4)