# The Diversity Myth **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939 "2003-04-24T20:29:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/1 "2003-04-24T20:29:11Z")
Whenever I hear a neo-communist proclaim, “_Diversity is America’s greatest strength_”, I shake my head in utter disgust. “Diversity” is NOT America’s greatest strength, FREEDOM is America’s greatest strength. Whenever I hear a liberal pule, “_Multi-culturalism is the beautiful mosaic that is America_”, I chuckle at the unintended appropriateness of such an absurdity. A mosaic’s beauty is only revealed when viewed from a distance. Up close, it ain’t all that pretty. This state-promoted concept of multi-culturalism, along with the idea that America is a democracy, are blatant examples of establishment-sponsored brainwashing that is being inculcated into the mindset of contemporary Americans. To gain some insight into the hearts and minds of the Founding Fathers, all one has to do is refer the historical writings of those times. The Federalist Papers are considered to be the definitive documents that reveal the thoughts and ideas of the Founding Fathers’ concept of America. In Federalist, #2, John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, wrote: “_With equal pleasure I have often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people–a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established their general liberty and independence._” Is it any wonder that the public-education establishment does not teach traditional American history anymore? Remember when every liberal talking-head pundit in America was blasting Atlanta Braves pitcher John Rocker for his candidness in regarding the social climate of New York City? The common rebuttal was, “Hey, Rocker, this country was founded by foreigners!!” A prime example of sophistry. Of course foreigners founded this country. Foreigners from such countries as England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Poland, Spain, Italy, etc. In other words… European nations. And that is the way it was for two-hundred years, that is until 1965, when the brakes were put on traditional European immigration and the gates were opened to the “Third-world”. Not that those from the “Third-world” are not welcome to immigrate to America, for they truly are. But that would be in the spirit of E Pluribus Unum. From many different peoples and cultures, we become one… Americans. This concept is quite the contrary to the annointed’s vision of multicultrualism, where America is to be a hodgepodge of various cultures, each resisting assimilation and preferring to hold to the ways and traditions of the homeland they left and sought refuge from. It’s hard to imagine that the powers-that-be within our government would purposefully do this, but make no mistake about it, this was done on purpose. Not so much for benevolence, as the anointed would have us to believe, but to facilitate the socialization of America with the ultimate goal of assimilating Americans into what is commonly referred to as the “New World Order”, which is nothing more than camouflage for “New World Communism” Let me give you an illustrative example of how America is being led down that path. Forty years ago, the Spanish speaking Americans of the southwest were predominantly conservative. They enjoyed the American tenets of freedom, liberty and limited government. They embraced the concept of capitalism. Today, the political climate of the southwest leans decidedly more toward socialism. This change has come about deliberately as a result of the immigration policies post 1965. ## One thing I have always found amusing is the resistance by these new Spanish-speaking immigrants to any attempt to declare English as the official language for doing state business. Their “reasoning” is that they consider the English language to be an imposition of European culture upon them. To which I say, “HEY MORON, WHERE DO YOU THINK SPAIN IS!!!” George C. Collinsworth A liberal’s worst nightmare; a redneck with both a library card a concealed-carry permit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/2 "2003-04-24T20:44:10Z")
George: As much as I would like to take your side in this argument, your proposition that there is a cabal of lefites trying to brainwash us into some international UN run socialist country really just comes across as paranoid ranting. My opinion, for what it’s worth. I put that in the same category I put Hillary’s “vast right wing conspiracy”. Gotta say, though, that your last sentence made me chuckle. I hope you can say that with at least a modicum of good natured chiding. There’s really no point in rubbing people’s nose in it. PS: I ain’t no liberal, but I find your byline more adolescent than scary. Again, just MHO. ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/3 "2003-04-24T20:54:32Z")
But when you think about it, aren’t those two qualities liberal nightmares? ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/4 "2003-04-24T21:10:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > **As much as I would like to take your side in this argument, your proposition that there is a cabal of lefites trying to brainwash us into some international UN run socialist country really just comes across as paranoid ranting** Is it just totally illogical to come to such conclusions based on the effect that said policies have had on American society? ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/5 "2003-04-24T21:13:46Z")
(cont.) Or do you think it is all just happenstance? ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/6 "2003-04-24T21:18:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*PS: I ain’t no liberal, but I find your byline more adolescent than scary. Again, just MHO. \*\* Nah, it ain’t no MHO, you went out of the way to take a dig at me. No big deal, I just consider the source. ---
**Author:** ![ShoNuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@ShoNuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShoNuff)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/7 "2003-04-24T21:20:47Z")
[sarcasm]Wow, **Razorsharp** , your OP was both educational and enlightening. I thank you for this eye opening experience.[/sarcasm] Where to start… You site John Jay who claims that _“this one connected country to one united people–a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion…”_ This quote is patently false. As you yourself claimed, Americans did not come from “the same ancestors.” Instead, they came from “England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Poland, Spain, Italy, etc.” Let’s not forget Portugal and Spain! Obviously, these people didn’t all speak the same language, either. In regards to religion, any fool would know that **your** list of countries are predominantly Anglican, Protestant, and Catholic. Let’s not forget the Puritans, as well! You forget that, when these people came to America in the first large wave of immigration, they didn’t immediately assimilate, either. Every large city was a mixture of German, Irish, Spanish, and English. They assimilated in further generations, as did the later waves of Polish, Jewish, and Puerto Rican families. The strength of America **is** in its freedom, I agree with you there. But, that freedom makes us strong because it allows the best, most capable people to succeed. This includes people from all ethnic backgrounds, not just European. This has taken shape as that dreaded _multiculturalism_. The shocking idea that everybody has the opportunity to succeed regardless of where they’re from. This includes learning the language, but is mostly dependent on hard work, luck, and patience. ## Your OP has some dangerous implications, and I hope I’m not the only one who recognizes it. I hope you continue to use that library card. I look forward to a rational, fact-based debate from you, **Razorsharp**. ShoNuff A redneck’s worst nightmare; a Jew with a Master’s Degree and a concealed-carry permit. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/8 "2003-04-24T21:36:43Z")
Wow! Jingoism! I’m _so_ impressed! (Sarcasm’s allowed outside the Pit, yes? Good.) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/9 "2003-04-24T21:38:02Z")
"Nah, it ain’t no MHO, you went out of the way to take a dig at me. No big deal, I just consider the source." You are, of course, free to ignore advice as much as you’d like. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/10 "2003-04-24T21:38:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*As much as I would like to take your side in this argument, your proposition that there is a cabal of lefites trying to brainwash us into some international UN run socialist country really just comes across as paranoid ranting. My opinion, for what it’s worth. I put that in the same category I put Hillary’s “vast right wing conspiracy”. \*\* I’m afraid I must agree with **John Mace’s** comment. **George** , a good rule to keep in mind is: _Never ascribe to an ulterior motive what you can ascribe to incompetence_. ---
**Author:** ![ShoNuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@ShoNuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShoNuff)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/11 "2003-04-24T21:46:25Z")
Oh no, I agree with **december** … **checking for flying bacon** Well, I guess there _is_ common ground for everybody. Don’t you love diversity?! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/12 "2003-04-24T21:49:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShoNuff \* > **Let’s not forget Portugal and Spain!** Doggone it, you had such a knee-jerk reaction, you didn’t even realize that I did mention Spain. > [@](#): > > **In regards to religion, any fool would know that your list of countries are predominantly Anglican, Protestant, and Catholic. Let’s not forget the Puritans, as well!** Yeah, and any idiot would realize that those you mentioned are all Christian. Well, maybe not any idiot. > [@](#): > > **You forget that, when these people came to America in the first large wave of immigration, they didn’t immediately assimilate, either.** No, of course they didn’t **immediately** assimilate, but assimilation was at least a goal. That is not the case today. > [@](#): > > **The strength of America is in its freedom, I agree with you there. But, that freedom makes us strong because it allows the best, most capable people to succeed. This includes people from all ethnic backgrounds, not just European. This has taken shape as that dreaded _multiculturalism_. The shocking idea that everybody has the opportunity to succeed regardless of where they’re from. This includes learning the language, but is mostly dependent on hard work, luck, and patience.** And with a little help from tax-payer funded programs that give preference to “minorities” and immigrants. > [@](#): > > \*\*Your OP has some dangerous implications, and I hope I’m not the only one who recognizes it. \*\* Liberalism has dangerous implications. All one has to do is look at the results. It’s self-evident for those who don’t emulate the ostrich. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/13 "2003-04-24T21:58:59Z")
Give us your stalwart, your rich, your huddled conservatives yearning for gated communities. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/14 "2003-04-24T22:04:19Z")
> [@](#): > > The shocking idea that everybody has the opportunity to succeed regardless of where they’re from. This includes learning the language, but is mostly dependent on hard work, luck, and patience. Bah. **Razorsharp** never said any such thing, and to imply as such means that either you need to brush up on your reading skills, or you didn’t want to address the actual point of the OP. While I think the OP may have come off as a wee bit paranoid, I agree with the underlying theme. It isn’t, as you seem to claim, that only people of anglo-saxon descent should have the “opportunity to succeed”. It’s that the people who immigrate to our nation should, to some extent, conform to our society, rather than forcing us to conform to theirs. This doesn’t mean that everyone should be forced to dress the same and eat nothing but pizza and burgers. But it _does_ mean that it’s unreasonable of immigrants to expect us to go too far out of our way to accomodate them. The most blatant example of this is the seeming refusal of certain peoples to adopt English as their language. While some level of assistance on the part of US citizens is acceptable while immigrants learn the native language, a wholesale reluctance to even try is, to put it bluntly, offensive. Attempts to create a multitude of “national languages” is an awful large degree of imposition by those to whom we’ve opened our borders. I would imagine if a Chinese native moved to France and demanded that everyone learn Mandarin, he would be laughed out of the country. You want to come over here and celebrate your roots? Hey, cool. Wanna speak your native language in your own home? Be my guest. But we shouldn’t be forced to learn your language in order to converse with you. We shouldn’t have to declare Zimbabwean New Year a national holiday. We shouldn’t have to take special care on account of the fact that your native culture considers green-colored park benches a gross personal affront. In short, it is _you_ who should have to change to accomodate _our_ style of living, not the other way around. You’re more than welcome to live in our nation, and share the benefits of our society, but for God’s sake, you’re an American now. Not an African-American, not a Chinese-American… an _American_. Accept it, and act like it. Or get the hell out. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/15 "2003-04-24T22:06:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*I’m afraid I must agree with **John Mace’s** comment. **George** , a good rule to keep in mind is: _Never ascribe to an ulterior motive what you can ascribe to incompetence_. \*\* Oh, don’t be fooled, they are not incompetent. See, if it was all just happenstance, the law of averages alone would dictate that once in a while, just by accident, some of their programs would actually benefit society. ---
**Author:** ![ShoNuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@ShoNuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShoNuff)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/16 "2003-04-24T22:16:56Z")
Yeah, I missed Spain. But, the point still stands. They weren’t all from one common ancestry. Disagree? > [@](#): > > _Yeah, and any idiot would realize that those you mentioned [Anglican, Protestant, Catholic, Puritan] are all Christian. Well, maybe not any idiot._ These may all seem similar to us now, in 2003, but during the 18th century, those distinctions were very real. Wars were fought, people were burned at the stake, and entire villages moved thousnads of miles becuase of the distinctions you so brazenly glossed over. The point still stands. > [@](#): > > _That [assimilation as the goal] is not the case today._ Proof? Cite? Explain the hundres of minorities who speak English and have risen to the top of government, academia, and private industry. Examples: ``` Francis Fukuyama - Professor and Dean at Johns Hopkins University, groundbreaking philosopher Ken Chenault - CEO of American Express Richard Parsons - CEO, AOL Time Warner Franklin Raines - CEO, Fannie Mae Colin Powell - Secretary of State ``` Regardless of your opinions of their policies, can you honsetly argue that they haven’t assimilated fairly well? And these are just 5 examples. > [@](#): > > _Liberalism has dangerous implications. All one has to do is look at the results. It’s self-evident for those who don’t emulate the ostrich._ I’d argue that _extremism_ has dangerous implications, whether its left or right wing. * * * To add on to my points about religious diversity when our country was founded, I point you to a letter written by George Washington to the Jews of Newport, RI. Since your John Jay quote is obviously inaccurate (unless you have any evidence to support it), maybe this quote would better serve our purposes, here. _"a Government which to bigotry gives no sanction, to persecution no assistance—but generously affording to All liberty of conscience, and immunities of citizenship: - deeming every one, of whatever nation, tongue or language equal parts of the great Governmental Machine: – This so ample and extensive federal union whose basis is Philanthropy, mutual confidence, and public virtue, we cannot but acknowledge to be the work of the Great God, who ruleth the Armies of Heaven, and among the Inhabitants of the Earth, doing whatsoever seemeth [to Him] good.”_ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/17 "2003-04-24T22:17:48Z")
Jeff: I want to hear more about this Zimbabwean New Year. If there’s any drinking involved, sign me up! Seriously, though, you make some very good points. Why some people can’t “celebrate diversity” without legislating it is beyond me. If your culture has something of value to the marketplace of ideas we have in this country, it’ll be gladly tacked on. Spanish is creeping into American English fine on it’s own w/o any gov’t help. Think how freely people use “dinero”, “nada”, “comprende”, “mucho” and many other Spanish words that would’ve drawn a blank stare 20 yrs ago. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/18 "2003-04-24T22:25:19Z")
\<\< See, if it was all just happenstance, the law of averages alone would dictate that once in a while, just by accident, some of their programs would actually benefit society. \>\> Yeah, society was so much better when there were racially segregated bathrooms and inferior races had to sit at the back of the bus, and were kept from voting by property or education restrictions. And when lynch mobs could enforce justice knowing that the guilty party was always a black or Jew. And it was so much better when women knew their place and stayed at home cooking. And when Are you suggesting that things like the Civil Rights Act and related legislation are not of benefit to society? … I guess it depends on **whose** society, eh? \<\< Forty years ago, the Spanish speaking Americans of the southwest were predominantly conservative. They enjoyed the American tenets of freedom, liberty and limited government. They embraced the concept of capitalism. Today, the political climate of the southwest leans decidedly more toward socialism. \>\> So,“freedom” should mean that every citizen has the freedom to vote for conservative candidates and policies, **Razor**? Your dream is not of some golden-age America. Your dream is of a homogeneous fascist state, which God forbid should ever tarnish America. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/19 "2003-04-24T22:39:58Z")
I love you, **C K Dexter Haven**! Esprix ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/20 "2003-04-24T22:40:08Z")
Yeah **razor**! Because of that dern liberal Roosevelt and his freakin’ TVA electricity I can’t see the stars at night. Oh, and what’s with the child labor laws? I should have every right to employ five year olds in my textile plant. I don’t care what OSHA says about the accident rate. I figure they’re only five, they haven’t been around long enough to really get attached to life. And don’t get me started on abolitionism. Nothing good ever came of _that_. Sorry for the sarcam, **razor** , but when you post things like: > [@](#): > > See, if it was all just happenstance, the law of averages alone would dictate that once in a while, just by accident, some of their programs would actually benefit society. you are tough to take seriously. As for my politics, I’m fairly conservative. However, just because I tend to vote Republican does not mean that I wear blinders and “emulate the ostrich” when confronted with the history of American politics. Your OP may have a point, but you need to back down from the absolutes. Some liberals have changed society very much for the better. On preview, I see that **CK** has beat me to some of my points, but I’ll post anyway. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939.md?page=2)