# The Diversity Myth **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939 "2003-04-24T20:29:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/21 "2003-04-24T22:51:43Z")
I don’t live in the Southwest. It is very much news to my that the Southwesterners, in particular the Latinos of the Southwest, have been drifting politically leftwards since 1965; my understanding was that the Latinos are still remarkably socially conservative, apart from issues of special concern to them such as bilingual education. Which I do indeed have a problem with. I agree, the melting pot should continue to operate, even if we have to turn up the heat a little. I suggest anyone interested in this topic read “The Next American Nation,” by Michael Lind (1995). Lind makes a very powerful case against multiculturalism, and for the recognition of an already existing cultural nation of “Trans-America” – and he emphatically does not make it from a conservative standpoint; in the same book he calls for federal social and economic programs on a scale not seen since the New Deal. In particular he calls for replacing race-based affirmative action with an even more aggressive class-based affirmative action that would give a leg up to all people of poor backgrounds, regardless of ethnicity. Now THAT would turn up the heat under the melting pot! By the way, Razorsharp, you have to concede that the Latinos are THE ONLY PROBLEM here, insofar as immigrant resistance to American cultural assimilation is a problem at all, which it might be. Every other immigrant group that has come here since 1965 will assimilate, at least to the point that their grandchildren will speak unaccented American English at home, even if they remain Muslims or Hindus or whatever. The existence of foreign-language newspapers and immigrant clubs and even bilingual education in the schools will not prevent that. But Latinos are different from every other cultural minority in America, because their “old country” is not on the other side of an ocean, it’s just across the border, or just over the Straits of Florida, and they will have the opportunity to keep up frequent social and cultural contacts with their relatives back home. The grandchildren of the present generation of American Latinos probably will speak Spanish at home. I’m uncomfortable with that, but it’s not a major problem so long as they learn to speak English everywhere else, which they will. They will also grow up exposed to American media, American education, American everything. In the end they will be just one more exotic breed of Americans. The Indians, some few of the few remaining, still speak their own languages at home instead of English, but who can deny their status as cultural Americans? I don’t think there’s an Indian in America who CAN’T speak English, or who can’t understand the things we regard as American cultural and political values. So, you have a point, Razorsharp, but lighten up! It’s not as big a problem as you think it is! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/22 "2003-04-24T23:10:36Z")
“I don’t live in the Southwest. It is very much news to my that the Southwesterners, in particular the Latinos of the Southwest, have been drifting politically leftwards since 1965” Brian: I thought Razor was implying that we had encouraged immigration from Sweden starting in 1965 as an explanation for the drift toward socialism. Now, why Swedes would want to settle in the southwest, I don’t know. Maybe they’re just looking for a warmer climate. Seriouly, though, Razor, you really lost me on that one. What DID you mean about 1965 immigration laws promoting a drift towards socialism? If it was supposed to be obvious, I totally missed it. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/23 "2003-04-24T23:10:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Spanish is creeping into American English fine on it’s own w/o any gov’t help. Think how freely people use “dinero”, “nada”, “comprende”, “mucho” and many other Spanish words that would’ve drawn a blank stare 20 yrs ago. Bingo. And that’s a-okay. Hell, I use Spanish in everyday usage all the time, and I’m the whitest white-boy you’ll ever meet. We adopt Mexican language (and culture) into our own. We do the same with France, Japan, China, and all number of others. (Honestly, probably 80% of the food I eat can be directly traced to some other nation - mostly Italy and Mexico). But that’s because we, as Americans, thought those were groovy aspects of the respective cultures. As to Zimbabwean New Year, of course there’s drinking involved! What kinda of crappy-ass New Year’s celebration _doesn’t_? Jeff ---
**Author:** ![InquisitiveIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@InquisitiveIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InquisitiveIdiot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/24 "2003-04-24T23:29:09Z")
> [@](#): > > It is very much news to my that the Southwesterners, in particular the Latinos of the Southwest, have been drifting politically leftwards since 1965; my understanding was that the Latinos are still remarkably socially conservative Que dice? In my experience (and I DO live in the Southwest) conservative latinos are very hard to find. Mostly because racial preferences are very much a liberal thing. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/25 "2003-04-24T23:35:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Que dice? In my experience (and I DO live in the Southwest) conservative latinos are very hard to find. Mostly because racial preferences are very much a liberal thing. \*\* Tell that to Orlando Sanchez who ran as the Republican candidate in the last mayoral election here. That said, it’s probably pretty misleading to think of latinos as voting in some kind of bloc. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/26 "2003-04-24T23:41:42Z")
The Southwest has been moving towards socialism since 1965? Assuming that “Southwest” is Arizona and New Mexico, I see, electorally, evidence of no such thing. Arizona is one of the most conservative states there is, and New Mexico was more Republican in the 1970’s and 1980’s then it ever had been before. Even when we add Southern California to the mix, all that’s been happening is that liberal Hispanics have been replacing liberal Anglos, and I do know California quite well. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/27 "2003-04-25T02:53:12Z")
**Razorsharp** , do you distinguish between communism, socialism, and liberalism, or are they all the same enemy to you? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/28 "2003-04-25T04:26:37Z")
So to preserve people’s freedom, you find it necessary to insist on assimilation to a personal viewpoint acceptable to you? In what way does this “defense of freedom” differ from “It was necessary to destroy the village in order to save it”? ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/29 "2003-04-25T06:39:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > You want to come over here and celebrate your roots? Hey, cool. Wanna speak your native language in your own home? Be my guest. But we shouldn’t be forced to learn your language in order to converse with you. We shouldn’t have to declare Zimbabwean New Year a national holiday. We shouldn’t have to take special care on account of the fact that your native culture considers green-colored park benches a gross personal affront. In short, it is _you_ who should have to change to accomodate _our_ style of living, not the other way around. > > You’re more than welcome to live in our nation, and share the benefits of our society, but for God’s sake, you’re an American now. Not an African-American, not a Chinese-American… an _American_. Accept it, and act like it. Or get the hell out. > Jeff Well, I sure am glad I ordered those Navajo lessons earlier. If I’m going to have to give up all the language and culture that’s gotten imported into North America, I’d better be ready. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/30 "2003-04-25T12:07:14Z")
Read his post, MrVisible. He said that we should not have to conform to every last minute distinction of person that claim to exist. Want to speak Navajo? Be my guest…but don’t expect us to give up ze Yinglish. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/31 "2003-04-25T14:35:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Liberalism has dangerous implications. What exactly is “liberalism”? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/32 "2003-04-25T14:41:38Z")
The modern liberal diversity doctrine (MLDD), I guess ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/33 "2003-04-25T16:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrVisible \* > Well, I sure am glad I ordered those Navajo lessons earlier. If I’m going to have to give up all the language and culture that’s gotten imported into North America, I’d better be ready. Yeah, but you’re cheating! Falling in love with a Navajo and marrying him is not an option for most people. AFAIK, **Razorsharp** has a lot of _chutzpah_ to insist that other people are expected to conform their mores to the one he finds amenable. He needs to _walk in another’s moccasins_. Or, perhaps, as a Jewish rabbinical student turned evangelist once said, he needs to _esteem others more highly than himself_, as an itinerant rabbi executed as a threat to civil order once gave the example on how to do. Perhaps we might _lift every voice and sing_ in defense of freedom, since we do have “_a Republic, if you can keep it_.” You may notice that the italicized terms are part of the American experience, and draw from five different traditions. But perhaps the most important comment on the subject was made by a Canadian of sainted memory, in reference to similar arguments of “how everybody ought to do what _I_ think is the right thing to do,” and it was his invariant custom to refute their arguments incisively and then end with his opinion of people who would hold such views. And I shall emulate him by closing this post with: :wally ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/34 "2003-04-25T16:57:58Z")
\>\> To which I say, “HEY MORON, WHERE DO YOU THINK SPAIN IS!!!” Ok, ok, no need to get angry. I give up. Where _is_ Spain? Didn’t president Bush sit on it by mistake? ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/35 "2003-04-25T16:58:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by athelas \* > Read his post, MrVisible. He said that we should not have to conform to every last minute distinction of person that claim to exist. Want to speak Navajo? Be my guest…but don’t expect us to give up ze Yinglish. Not big on subtlety, huh? Tell you what… read through the quote below, and imagine that it’s being said by a Native American. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > You want to come over here and celebrate your roots? Hey, cool. Wanna speak your native language in your own home? Be my guest. But we shouldn’t be forced to learn your language in order to converse with you. We shouldn’t have to declare Zimbabwean New Year a national holiday. We shouldn’t have to take special care on account of the fact that your native culture considers green-colored park benches a gross personal affront. In short, it is _you_ who should have to change to accomodate _our_ style of living, not the other way around. > > You’re more than welcome to live in our nation, and share the benefits of our society, but for God’s sake, you’re an American now. Not an African-American, not a Chinese-American… an _American_. Accept it, and act like it. Or get the hell out. > Jeff ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/36 "2003-04-25T19:29:43Z")
Nothing new to add, just saying that most of the replies to the OP are precisely what makes me love this board, and show some of the more admirable aspects of American society. No, I’m not being ironic. And I find myself in agreement with **december** too! Whoddave thunk? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/37 "2003-04-25T20:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > \*\* The grandchildren of the present generation of American Latinos probably will speak Spanish at home. I’m uncomfortable with that, but it’s not a major problem so long as they learn to speak English everywhere else, which they will. \*\* It boggles the mind. How does the language that people speak in their homes make you uncomfortable? I can’t even comprehend that. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by El Jeffe_ > **The most blatant example of this is the seeming refusal of certain peoples to adopt English as their language. While some level of assistance on the part of US citizens is acceptable while immigrants learn the native language, a wholesale reluctance to even try is, to put it bluntly, offensive. Attempts to create a multitude of “national languages” is an awful large degree of imposition by those to whom we’ve opened our borders…** Hmmm…I don’t remember opening the borders around here as much as saying “this, which was part of Mexico, is now part of the United States”. Where I live, Spanish has a much greater historic claim than English. Heck, I just feel lucky to live here and glad that an area this beautiful is a part of a country this strong. I’m not going to begrudge people for speaking the language that they have spoken here for generations. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by El Jeffe_ > \*\*You’re more than welcome to live in our nation, and share the benefits of our society, but for God’s sake, you’re an American now. Not an African-American, not a Chinese-American… an American. Accept it, and act like it. Or get the hell out. > \*\* And all evidence points to the fact that a good portion of Americans speak Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/38 "2003-04-25T20:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > **_Originally posted by ShoNuff_ > Yeah, I missed Spain. But, the point still stands. They weren’t all from one common ancestry. Disagree?** No, the point is limp. John Jay was correct in his assertion of a common ancestry, they were all Europeon. > [@](#): > > **These may all seem similar to us now, in 2003, but during the 18th century, those distinctions were very real. Wars were fought, people were burned at the stake, and entire villages moved thousnads of miles becuase of the distinctions you so brazenly glossed over. The point still stands.** Again, the point is limp. John Jay was correct in his assertion of a commom religion, Christianity. You’re grasping at straws to give some validity to your contention that John Jay’s statement was “patently false”. Well, I am prone to believe that John Jay was pretty well attuned to early American society. > [@](#): > > \*\*Explain the hundreds of minorities who speak English and have risen to the top of government, academia, and private industry. > Regardless of your opinions of their policies, can you honsetly argue that they haven’t assimilated fairly well? \*\* No explaination is needed for the “hundreds of minorities” who have risen to the high echelons of society. I applaud them. They are shining examples to be noted, but how about the thousands that make no effort and expect to be supported by the taxpayer? Not only do they expect it, it has gotten to the point that they now demand it. I noticed that you neglected to mention Justice Clarence Thomas as an example of a “minority” that rose to the top of American society. Yeah, we all know how liberals treated him. What was it they called him? “Uncle Tom” (among other things which I won’t print here), wasn’t it? Liberals are such hypocrites. > [@](#): > > **To add on to my points about religious diversity when our country was founded, I point you to a letter written by George Washington to the Jews of Newport, RI. Since your John Jay quote is obviously inaccurate (unless you have any evidence to support it) maybe this quote would better serve our purposes, here.** As far as the accuracy of the quote, The Federalist Papers are documents of that era. If you wish to doubt the character and wisdom of the men instrumental in the founding of this nation, that is your perogative. > [@](#): > > _"a Government which to bigotry gives no sanction, to persecution no assistance—but generously affording to All liberty of conscience, and immunities of citizenship: - deeming every one, of whatever nation, tongue or language equal parts of the great Governmental Machine: – This so ample and extensive federal union whose basis is Philanthropy, mutual confidence, and public virtue, we cannot but acknowledge to be the work of the Great God, who ruleth the Armies of Heaven, and among the Inhabitants of the Earth, doing whatsoever seemeth [to Him] good.”_ Nothing wrong with that, as long as it is under the concept of “E Pluribus Unum”. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/39 "2003-04-25T21:19:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Razorsharp** _ > > Liberals are such hypocrites. And conservatives are paragons of virtue and sainthood. There. That’s what you wanted to hear, wasn’t it? Can you get off the cross now? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939/40 "2003-04-25T21:24:08Z")
Clarence Thomas was accepted into Yale law school, in part, under an affirmative action plan designed to increase the number of qualified minorities to diversify the school. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-diversity-myth/170939.md?page=3)