# The Divine Comedy... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 24, 2001, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540 "2001-09-24T19:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/1 "2001-09-24T19:11:27Z")
Worth reading in full, or is the journey through Hell good enough? Because man, once you hear about Satan literally chewing on Judas, it’s hard to provide a suitable follow up. jarbaby ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/2 "2001-09-24T19:21:20Z")
All I’ve read is Inferno, which is very good and I recommend it (I read the John Ciardi translation; I don’t know if that’s considered best or not). Don’t know about the others, though. And I don’t remember Satan chewing on Judas. My recollection is that Satan was just another inmate, down at the frozen center of Hell, all tied up and not even chewing on his lip. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/3 "2001-09-24T19:27:23Z")
Worth reading in full, except all of the really good quotes come from the Inferno. (Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate… who DOESN’T want that inscribed over the headboard of their bed?) Coincidentally, I’m halfway through the Purgatorio as we speak- part of the pile of my nightstand reading. And **Fiver**? Satan was gnawing on Cassius, Judas, and Brutus- the three great traitors. The S Fowler Light translation describes it as such: > [@](#): > > “That soul that most endures, > Whose head Apollyon in his mouth hath got, > Whose legs kick outward, is Iscariot:” > My Master told, “of those whose heads may quit > The teeth that chew them, down the swarthier chin > Is Brutus dangling. Mark how silently > He writhes. The comrade of his doom is he > Who shared that treason, Cassius. - But the night > Is rising in the world without, and we > Must hasten. All is seen that lies herein, > And hence depart we.” ---
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/4 "2001-09-24T19:28:03Z")
IIRC Satan has Judas sticking out of one of his three mouths, to be perpetually gnawed on like a stick of cosmic Bubble Yum. The Inferno is clearly the best. The Purgatorio is a good read if you are really interested in Dante’s culture at the time - one of the most fun things about the Divine Comedy as a whole is that he got to put people he liked in heaven and people he didn’t like in hell, so there is this gossipy judgemental thing going on. The Paradisio…eh…it was good to say I’d read all three. I still remember my take-home exam on the Inferno. “Create your own version of hell. What would your circles be, who would be in them, and why?” ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/5 "2001-09-24T19:40:22Z")
Did anyone put your teacher in Hell, **magdalene**? _Mea culpa_ on the chewing-on-Judas thing. It’s been several years since I read it. Tied up, frozen, at the bottom of Hell and mindlessly chewing on traitors: that must be just about the most undignified and powerless depiction of Satan in history. Correct? ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/6 "2001-09-24T19:44:09Z")
I liked **Purgatorio** a lot, maybe more than **L’Inferno**. There still are all kinds of interesting sites to see, but there is hope and joy in the atmosphere. I have always liked this line from **Purgatorio** , canto 22, lines 10-13: “Love, enkindled by Virtue, has always kindled love in others, As long as its own flame showed outwardly.” Not as cool as “Lasciate ogni speranza, etc.” it’s true…but still. I could never get past the fifth canto or so of **Paradiso**. BTW, my Dante professor always stressed that Dante didn’t _put_ anyone in Hell, he _found_ them there. FTR, my favorite tortured soul in the **Inferno** is Pier della Vigna, the suicide who is turned into a tree. Excellent, excellent example of Dante’s _contrapasso_. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/7 "2001-09-24T19:51:02Z")
I’ve only read the Inferno, too, in the John Ciardi translation. Hell is always so much more interesting that Heaven, or even Purgatory. I just couldn’t get into the other two parts of the Divine Comedy. BTW, try reading Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle’s “Inferno” after you read Dante Alighieri’s. ---
**Author:** ![screech-owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@screech-owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screech-owl)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/8 "2001-09-24T19:52:39Z")
I just received a hardcover edition of _Paradisio_ - wonderful medieval illuminations of the book, as well as a paraphrase of the text (full text in the back of the book). The action is in _Inferno_. _Paradisio_ is contemplation. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/9 "2001-09-24T19:54:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gallows fodder \* > Not as cool as “Lasciate ogni speranza, etc.” it’s true…but still. I’m not going to lie to you, I’m as dumb as a bag of hammers. But is this quote the latin equivalent of the “Abandon All Hope” thingee we’ve come to know and love? And does anyone remember that Far Side with the two guys in Hell and the one just says “I hate this place” God, that’s the best cartoon EVER. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/10 "2001-09-24T20:01:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gallows fodder \* > BTW, my Dante professor always stressed that Dante didn’t _put_ anyone in Hell, he _found_ them there. Yeah, I’ve never _put_ anyone on my shit-list, I just _find_ them there. 😉 I haven’t read the Purgatorio or the Paradisio in about four years (barring the half of the Purgatorio that I’ve since re-read in the past week). I think what catches my eye the most is the terza rima scheme- ABA BCB CDC etc. I’ve been meaning to try my hand at it sometime to see how difficult it is. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/11 "2001-09-24T20:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > I’m not going to lie to you, I’m as dumb as a bag of hammers. But is this quote the latin equivalent of the “Abandon All Hope” thingee we’ve come to know and love? Italian, yeah. Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. The perfect quote for my bedroom. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/12 "2001-09-24T20:09:21Z")
I hope this doesn’t sound pretentious, because that’s not my intent… That said, you can’t fully enjoy Dante unless you know Italian, because there are tons of plays on words/alliterations/inside jokes that you can’t get unless you read him in the original language. Or else, make sure you get a good commentary that talks about the Italian. I read Robert Pinsky’s **Inferno** and thought he did a great job. W.S. Merwin (my favorite poet) just put out his translation of **Purgatorio** , which I haven’t read yet, but I imagine it would be very good. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/13 "2001-09-24T21:31:17Z")
By all means, read all three. Even in Dante’s time, the Inferno was the most popular. Also, it’s the most fun/active and, arguably, the best of the three as a read. Still, Purgatorio and Paradisio have incredible literary value. Purgatorio’s descriptions of the process of earning redemption and the fact that forgiveness and restitution go hand in hand were inspiring. God will forgive you off the bat, but you have to atone as well is a concept few recall today. Paradisio was brilliant because it was the mirror image of Hell. Here, as the Pilgrim ascends, rather than seeing each progressive circle become more and more foul, it becomes more and more glorious. When you factor in that Dante viewed the attainment of perfection at crossing into the first level, it’s fascinating to see how he makes each progressive circle “more” perfect than the last. No mean feat, and one he achieved in a way I don’t think anyone else ever could have. To reply to another post, yes, it does help to be able to read the Comedia in Italian for the fullest possible flavor. It is not essential, though, in order to thoroughly enjoy it. While I personally recommend the John Ciardi translations (they are available in one volume, as well), it should be noted that Ciardi takes more liberties with the original text than many other translators. He does this to give the reader a better feel for the original meter (which is often lost in translation) and a more complete experience of the poems. To his credit, they do read beautifully, and he footnotes like no one else in the business. It seems my $0.02 has just turned into a full blown dollar, but I couldn’t help myself. Happy reading. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2001, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/14 "2001-09-24T22:27:32Z")
This thread has piqued my interest enough that I’ll seek out and buy a copy of Dante’s Divine Comedy tonight or tomorrow. I’ll look for the Ciardi translation, but is there a compelling reason to consider a different translation? BTW, I don’t know any Italian except for what I heard in **The Godfather** movies. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2001, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/15 "2001-09-25T03:55:47Z")
Mine is translated by Dorothy L. Sayers and I just simply cannot get through it no matter how hard I try. I mean I’ve read some pretty boring stuff but this thing has been sitting on my bookshelf for close to a decade and I can’t read more than a couple of pages of it. Do you think this is because of the translation or is it just one of those mind-numbingly boring classics that everyone just claims to like because it is a classic? ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/16 "2001-09-25T04:23:00Z")
No, skip it. The whole thing. Niven and Pournelle wrote an interesting take on the inferno. You want a great epic poem on religion, read Paradise Lost. I am a Philistine! ---
**Author:** ![BlackDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d26b3c/32.png) [@BlackDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackDog)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2001, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/17 "2001-09-25T05:01:05Z")
i just happened to have started Inferno the other day, and now i stumbled on this thread. how funny. anyways, im totally diggin Inferno. i say read it. also, im reading the mandelbaum translation, if anyone cares. the “abandon…” quote reads differently in this one: “abandon every hope, who enter here.” i must admit that it sounds about half as biblical when said this way. just doesnt invoke that whole fear-of-the-wrath-of-the-almighty kind of feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2001, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/18 "2001-09-25T15:00:42Z")
Well, **DPWhite** , I wouldn’t skip _The Inferno_, but I’m with you on _Paradise Lost_. In fact, let’s do a Satanic classics list. _Inferno_–Dante _Paradise Lost/Paradise Regained_–Milton _Faust_–Goethe _Pilgrim’s Progress_–Bunyan (maybe–more fighting Lust and Rage and stuff) _Screwtape Letters_–CS Lewis These are the works (especially the Milton) which gave rise to the “devil gets all the good lines,” and “heaven is dull in comparison” comments. Of course Goethe gave us Lucifer as a poodle, so the truth of these comments is not absolute. Maybe add _The Devil and Daniel Webster_ to the list too. Did I miss any? I think reading this group would provide the traditional Christian view of satan. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2001, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/19 "2001-09-25T15:06:51Z")
**Humble Servant** , you left out the classic short story “The Devil Went Down to Georgia,” by famous author and violinist Charles Daniels. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2001, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540/20 "2001-09-25T15:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, DPWhite, I wouldn’t skip The Inferno, but I’m with you on Paradise Lost. > > In fact, let’s do a Satanic classics list. > > Inferno–Dante > Paradise Lost/Paradise Regained–Milton > Faust–Goethe > Pilgrim’s Progress–Bunyan (maybe–more fighting Lust and Rage and stuff) > Screwtape Letters–CS Lewis > > These are the works (especially the Milton) which gave rise to the “devil gets all the good lines,” and “heaven is dull in comparison” comments. Of course Goethe gave us Lucifer as a poodle, so the truth of these comments is not absolute. > > Maybe add The Devil and Daniel Webster to the list too. > > Did I miss any? I think reading this group would provide the traditional Christian view of satan Did you leave any out? How about my favorite, the “Don Juan in Hell” sequence from George Bernard Shaw’s play **Man and Superman**? Or C.S. Lewis’ response, **The Great Divorce**? There are plenty of newer takes on it, too. try Heinlein’s **Job: a Comedy of Morals**. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-divine-comedy/83540.md?page=2)