# The Dixie Chicks, revisited **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963 "2009-09-05T15:16:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/61 "2009-09-06T16:07:26Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I don’t agree with your dismissal of the fact that they were in England. It’s one thing to have a fight with a family member. It’s another to bad mouth that family member to those outside the family. If it happened in Boston, I wouldn’t have thought a thing about it. I felt the same way when Green Day said something about redneck Americans in their Bullet in a Bible DVD. Had it been in, say, Chicago, it wouldv’e been fine. I feel this too, at least a little. And I’m completely uninterested in what pop stars, actors and the like have to say about politics. Very rarely are their thoughts informed or interesting or challenging to me. I’m a dyed-in-the-wool liberal. Maybe social democrat is a better term, and I think the Bush presidency was a disaster. That said, like **Chessic** , I think criticism among our own is one thing, and criticism abroad is another. I’m married to someone who is not an American. We discuss lots of things, among them politics. I will admit to a visceral, non-rational reaction when she speaks critically of the United States. This is despite the fact that she is a brilliant, knowledgeable woman whose opinions are well worth listening to. Even when we disagree, I find that her opinion will shed some light on my own and sometimes even help me strengthen my position by exposing flaws in it. And still, I get that reaction. I have a bit of the same reaction upon hearing about some American entertainer speak critically of the U.S. from a foreign platform. As I said, I know this is not exactly rational, and I do my best not to let it intefere with actual thinking about issues. I also don’t think what Mains said amounts to “criticism.” It was just a slogan, and has about as much intellectual weight as the wearing of a “Fuck Bush” t-shirt. Which is idiotic, unhelpful, and more of a fashion statement than a political opinion. We’ve had enough sloganeering. If one’s political philosophy can be reduced to something that can be printed on a t-shirt, it’s not worth expressing. That goes for the left as well as the right. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/62 "2009-09-06T16:33:35Z")
I like the “foreign soil” thing; hey, how’s our new record doing on foreign soil? Yep teacher, we went on vacation this year on foreign soil. My new car was built on foreign soil. It’s got a real zing to it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/63 "2009-09-06T19:34:38Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I also don’t think what Mains said amounts to “criticism.” It was just a slogan, and has about as much intellectual weight as the wearing of a “Fuck Bush” t-shirt. Which is idiotic, unhelpful, and more of a fashion statement than a political opinion. I think that is a very good point. She may be a thoughtful, intelligent person, but that was not a thoughtful, intelligent comment. As for the foreign soil thing… well, she almost certainly wouldn’t have said that anywhere in the US, as her audience wouldn’t have taken it very well. So, she made a dumb-ass comment to a knowingly friendly crowd. Pffft. Not that this incident registers much on my outrage meter, if it registers at all. I’m not a fan of Bush or the Dixie Chicks, so I don’t have much stake in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/64 "2009-09-06T20:07:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Perhaps there is a venue too special and sacred for Ms Mains to speak up, but a country music concert isn’t one of them. She’s just a country western singer, and she speaks up, I’m just a message board bore, and I speak up. Many good people have given their all to protect democracy, the least we can do is deserve it. I think it was more of a case of “know your audience”. That’s all. Like I said, at a Pearl Jam or Bob Dylan concert, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Or if you want country, Willy Nelson. (At least, I don’t think there would be such a flap.) Hell, if I went to see Pearl Jam, I’d probably be disappointed if they DIDN’T say anything. As far as the Dixie Chicks, I didn’t give a shit then, and I don’t now. I still think it’s funny though, people burning their CDs in effigy (did they own them? Or did they have to go out and BUY them? If so, that’s hysterical.) **joebuck20** – I’ve seen the same Oswald shirts – only with Obama now. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/65 "2009-09-06T22:48:21Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > The Dixie Chicks. > > Is it even possible to be more obnoxiously stupid than that? It’s called knowing your audience. President Obama could learn something from the DC’s. He was forced to remove part of his speech/assignment that asked students to write about how they could help the President. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out this would sound like the mindless recruitment of children. Bush Senior did the same thing and was crucified for it and that was before the power of the internet. What makes this funny is that this was badly needed free publicity for a President down in the polls. Instead it’s another gaff-needs-correcting news headline along with the resignation of his “Green Czar”. It was a two-fer lead-off on the major network news channels. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/66 "2009-09-06T23:10:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think it was more of a case of “know your audience”. That’s all. > > As far as the Dixie Chicks, I didn’t give a shit then, and I don’t now. I still think it’s funny though, people burning their CDs in effigy (did they own them? Or did they have to go out and BUY them? If so, that’s hysterical.) The DC’s took a [33% hit](http://wizbangblog.com/content/2006/05/31/dixie-chicks-sales-drop-33-alb.php) on the release of a #1 record and that was 3 years after the incident. This was after a tremendous amount of free publicity such as 60 minutes, Time magazine, Good Morning America, Larry King and a free New York Concert. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/67 "2009-09-06T23:19:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > …Bush Senior did the same thing and was crucified for it and that was before the power of the internet… Don’t suppose you got a cite for that, just lying around? I remember he got a lot of flack for his “No nude Texans” promise, but outside of that, not much in the way of crucifying… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/68 "2009-09-06T23:39:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s called knowing your audience. President Obama could learn something from the DC’s. He was forced to remove part of his speech/assignment that asked students to write about how they could help the President. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out this would sound like the mindless recruitment of children. Bush Senior did the same thing and was crucified for it and that was before the power of the internet. > > What makes this funny is that this was badly needed free publicity for a President down in the polls. Instead it’s another gaff-needs-correcting news headline along with the resignation of his “Green Czar”. It was a two-fer lead-off on the major network news channels. Uh, I think that’s a little bit different…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/69 "2009-09-06T23:41:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Don’t suppose you got a cite for that, just lying around? I remember he got a lot of flack for his “No nude Texans” promise, but outside of that, not much in the way of crucifying… [House Majority Leader Dick Gephardt.](http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/09/03/flashback-1991-gephardt-called-bushs-speech-students-paid-political-a) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/70 "2009-09-06T23:44:04Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Uh, I think that’s a little bit different…:rolleyes: The Green Czar, and the school speech were the lead stores in conjunction with the President’s falling ratings. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/71 "2009-09-06T23:49:29Z")
That’s “crucifying”? Dick fucking _Gephardt_? Will you be here all week, should I try my waitress and tip the veal? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/72 "2009-09-07T02:19:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That’s “crucifying”? Dick fucking _Gephardt_? Will you be here all week, should I try my waitress and tip the veal? The whine served at your last supper was the Speaker of the House. Doesn’t get any more political than that. So yes, that would be crucifying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/73 "2009-09-07T03:10:39Z")
Nobody said it wasn’t political, since both paticipants are most assuredly political, that’s not the point in contention. The point in contention would be if that fell within the commonly understood meaning of a “crucifixion”. I think not. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/74 "2009-09-07T03:40:05Z")
To give a little musical background on Natalie Maines: she’s not some li’l ol’ country gal who happened into singing. Her father,[Lloyd Maines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Maines) is a well-respected second generation Texas country musician from Lubbock. And Lubbock was an odd galvanizing place for creative musicians in the 1960’s, the weirdest place in the middle of nowhere that spawned some of the best Texas musicians: Buddy Holly, Terry Allen, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Joe Ely, Butch Hancock, and on and on. And these folks were from the TX country, but anti-establishment, independent thinkers, and very creative Texans. Natalie was raised in that milieu, surrounded by great original musicians, and the good beginnings of what’s now called AltCountry. Her statement about Bush, as a Texan, was informed by that. I remember all the crap The Dixie Chicks got then, and thinking, “Well, here we go with the 451 for music (Yeah, I know it’s not a perfect analogy w/ Bradbury’s intentions…)” But, it was a real WTF moment for me, because I saw that sham war then what it’s being shown to be now, and was fine with Natalie speaking up on it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/75 "2009-09-07T03:53:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Nobody said it wasn’t political, since both paticipants are most assuredly political, that’s not the point in contention. The point in contention would be if that fell within the commonly understood meaning of a “crucifixion”. I think not. O K… The highest ranking person in the opposition party was ever so displeased and voiced his concerns accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/76 "2009-09-07T04:28:44Z")
OK, The second part of the OP; Natalie Maines was voicing opposition to a tenous position for war, and, I’ll admit I’m biased; I was horrified by that at the time as well. But, war is a horrific prospect, and should be carefully thought out before the bombing commences. The current Obama bombast doesn’t at all compare to that sort of decision, especially this latest folderall about a simple school address. I hopefully suppose we’re in the last throes of racism, where a very few just can’t deal that a darker skinned man is in charge; it’s popping all the buttons to apoplexy. Yes, it’s real now, we do have an African American as President, get a grip. It’s OK that he talks to your kids, because he’s really a good, intelligent man, and just wants them, like his own two school age girls, to succeed in life. Right, be afraid of that. So, respect of office in the two cases: one, rebellion at a war, disrespecting in another country, by a musician, allowed to speak her mind. OK, well, we can go our other ways with that. She was punished and shunned for awhile professionally as a result. But, George Bush didn’t suffer at all from that disrespect. Well, maybe some Texans snickered heartily. Two: This current rebellion against Obama, it just seems to be crazy disjointed stuff, hinged on him not being fit for office, either not as a natural born citizen, or as an anti-American; some sort of Socialist/Communist/WhateverisNOTUSist agent. That type of slant has a very different disrespect for the office. Maines spoke up for a different view on what the President was doing, and the current track of Crazy is to not even allow Obama into office, with all attendant duties, as President. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/77 "2009-09-07T04:53:48Z")
elelle: Lubbock? _Lubbock?_ We talking about the same Lubbock where my cousin John Wesley lives? That Lubbock? What next, the thriving counterculture at SMU? ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/78 "2009-09-07T05:25:58Z")
Bout to go on yond to sleep, but, for you, Eluc, yes Lubbock is/was an amazing hub of artistic activity in the 60’s. Have friends that can tell the tale: [Lubbock or Leave It](http://www.virtualubbock.com/). Most in that group mentioned have moved around Austin now. Pertinant to the OP, Natalie Maines was not yammering out of any vacuum though. She’s a good independent well-rooted Texan who spoke her mind. I’m gonna stand up for her here. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/79 "2009-09-07T06:41:56Z")
Honestly, I still don’t get what the hell the big deal was supposed to be. Whoop-de-do, they criticized the president. What could be more American than that? I’m a rock fan, though, so maybe I wouldn’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963/80 "2009-09-07T07:19:48Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Honestly, I still don’t get what the hell the big deal was supposed to be. Whoop-de-do, they criticized the president. What could be more American than that? > > I’m a rock fan, though, so maybe I wouldn’t understand. Liberals allow conservatives to control the tone of the political climate. 2001 - 2005: Criticism of the president is treason and anyone engaging in it should be put to death 2006 - 2008: Mumblemumblemumble 2009 - Current: Dissent is PATRIOTIC! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dixie-chicks-revisited/508963.md?page=5)