# The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe : Doctor Who Christmas Special 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 26, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389 "2011-12-26T01:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/61 "2011-12-27T22:42:12Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > **Amanset** - you need to put the crack pipe down. If you think last year’s was the worst ever you clearly didn’t see that foolishness with the space Titanic and Kylie Minogue. What? Voyage of the Damned was a \*great \*episode! The two Moffat-helmed Specials have been the weakest overall IMO. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/62 "2011-12-28T04:45:13Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > And speaking of Amy, she & Rory are aging extremely well for humans. Every time the Doctor pops back into their lives, it’s been a year, two, six…and yet they never seem to get older. Granted, they’d probably be in their late 20s / early 30s by this time in the series chronology, so she woulldn’t look like “the Girl Who Waited”, but Amy still looks she’s barely 20. I suppose it’s all that Time Lord DNA they absorbed while fornicating in the TARDIS. 🙂 Funny, I was noticing how Karen and Arthur were made up to look years older than they did in this year’s regular episodes. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/63 "2011-12-28T04:51:12Z")
My question was “Is she a famous model yet?” ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/64 "2011-12-28T05:30:36Z")
> [@MickNickMaggies](#): > > But what happened to the two other guys on the plane? > > Were they just left somewhere over the Channel? Did I miss that? The Avro Lancaster - which was not in service in December 1941, as I mentioned earlier - had a crew of 7. Now, it’s _possible_ that the rest of the crew were killed or had bailed out, but we _know_ that there were at least two other crewmen present, one wounded and one OK. No mention of them once the Lanc had landed (in an impossibly small area). Fair enough that the Lanc ended up on the ground due to wibbly-wobbly Xmas magic, but the rest of the crew deserved at least a mention. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/65 "2011-12-28T07:04:54Z")
I assumed that he stopped and dropped the others off at their respective houses on the way. Either that or he told them to keep quiet inside the plane till he’d had his dramatic moment with the wife and kids, otherwise it would ruin the visual. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/66 "2011-12-28T09:10:39Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > What? Voyage of the Damned was a \*great \*episode! The two Moffat-helmed Specials have been the weakest overall IMO. Actually, I’ll amend by previous opinion now that I’ve thought about it. Every single nuWho that is classed as a “special” has been utter arse. I’d blocked out how pathetic RTD’s last few were. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/67 "2011-12-28T11:08:10Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Actually, I’ll amend by previous opinion now that I’ve thought about it. > > Every single nuWho that is classed as a “special” has been utter arse. I’d blocked out how pathetic RTD’s last few were. Even the Waters of Mars? I thought it was brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Hogfather65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hogfather65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogfather65)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/68 "2011-12-28T11:54:58Z")
I waited and waited for this, hopeing it would be worth the wait - but in truth I would have prefered an empty stocking for christmas. Dr Who over the last few years has become bad… I grew up with Pertwee and Baker and they are corney now but still would prefer them to the utter crap that is being turned out today. What soldier would stop pointing their gun at someone by putting it on the ground and stepping back from it - bad…bad…BAD!!! ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/69 "2011-12-28T15:22:10Z")
Just remember Terrance Dick’s explanation of All Things Doctor Who: “Look! Monsters! Run!” ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/70 "2011-12-28T15:24:30Z")
> [@hermette](#): > > Even the Waters of Mars? I thought it was brilliant. Agreed. The Waters of Mars was one of the best, if not **THE** best episode of nuWho. I also liked The Next Doctor, and The End of Time (if that counts as a special). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/71 "2011-12-28T15:28:14Z")
> [@Hogfather65](#): > > What soldier would stop pointing their gun at someone by putting it on the ground and stepping back from it - bad…bad…BAD!!! They clearly weren’t professional military, more like the forestry division of [the Jupiter Mining Corporation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dwarf). ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/72 "2011-12-28T15:59:58Z")
I’ll also chime for the Waters of Mars being a classic. There are Who’s that are scary. Who’s that are silly or funny. Who’s that make you think about morality. Who’s where the doctor kicks ass. Who’s where there is mystery or puzzle to be solved. Who’s that reveal interesting history about the whoversre. Who’s where the premise the episode is based upon is funny/interesting/unique/thought provoking. Who’s that are part of some long story arc. Water of Mars is none of the those. That episode is probably the most realistic of the Who Episodes. There are several premises to that one. You can’t fight water and win (which is generally true). How the “martians” work (which seems suspect). And that history is unchangeable. Once you suspend disbelief about the way the martians work its just fucking tragic. The humans in this episode aren’t stupid or selfish or ignorant or short sighted. They do everything right. They are selfless and heroic to the very end. The Doctor is powerless to change anything. You watch it the first time, you wonder whats happening and whats going on and how it going to end. Watch it the second time, with a mindset that its actual history, and damn if its not a tear jerker. Its the Sci Fi equivalent of watching the Twin Towers fall on 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/73 "2011-12-28T18:38:39Z")
> [@hermette](#): > > Even the Waters of Mars? I thought it was brilliant. Let’s just say it did little for me but by that point I was just burnt out by the work of RTD. I love him for bringing back Who but I think he has been by far the worst writer, frequently brining in glaring inconsistencies and ending so often with the dreaded deus ex machina. An RTD writing credit was always a bad sign as far as I was concerned and during the specials that ended Tennant’s run I think I’d just had enough. ---
**Author:** ![Monkey\_Chews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Monkey\_Chews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monkey_Chews)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/74 "2011-12-30T12:44:19Z")
Thought this was lovely and magical, just about a perfect hour of television. Had tears streaming down my face for most of the last ten minutes (but they were happy tears, so that’s okay). I liked the goofiness and rapid-fire jokes of the early part of the episode and the more human moments of the last half. I really liked the idea of the mother needing to face something, to not shy away from the reality of what had happened but to fully feel it and accept it, in order to save the day. And of course for that to turn on its head and have her grief guide the way to bring her husband back and take them all home. One of those magical moments of impossibility that I love Doctor Who for. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/75 "2011-12-30T13:40:43Z")
> [@Monkey\_Chews](#): > > Had tears streaming down my face for most of the last ten minutes (but they were happy tears, so that’s okay). Very human. I also like the meme of rather ordinary people being capable of extraordinary things. Of course, Madge wasn’t entirely ordinary, but she was very human. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/76 "2011-12-30T15:45:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Very human. > > I also like the meme of rather ordinary people being capable of extraordinary things. Of course, Madge wasn’t entirely ordinary, but she was very human. Humany womany… You know, I try to avoid overdoing the sweets over the holidays and along comes Doctor Who… \*Lily and Cyril’s father… my husband … is dead, and they don’t know yet. Because if I tell them now, then Christmas will always be what took their father away from them, and no one should have to live like that. Of course, when the Christmas period is over, I shall. I don’t know why I keep shouting at them. Because every time you see them happy, you remember how sad they’re going to be, and it breaks your heart. Because what’s the point in them being happy now if they’re going to be sad later? The answer is, of course… because they are going to be sad later.\* ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389/77 "2013-10-19T22:55:00Z")
Bumping this to say that I just watched this last night with my wife, whose own father died on Christmas Day. There were a lot of tears. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe-doctor-who-christmas-special-2011/607389.md?page=3)