# The documentary 'women aren't funny'. Is it true or not **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 26, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956 "2015-01-26T21:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/61 "2015-01-27T22:56:29Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Her joke did not rely on a premise that Twain’s stuff is racist, but instead, on a premise that people sometimes say Twain’s stuff is racist–which is in fact true. Not from what I heard. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/62 "2015-01-27T23:13:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not from what I heard. > [@Tina Fey](#): > > And like Mark Twain, I hope that a hundred years from now, people will look back on my work, and think “wow that’s actually kind of racist.” That joke does not rely on an assumption that Mark Twain’s work was racist, but rather, it relies on an assumption that people think Mark Twain’s work is racist. It’s right there in the quoted words–there’s nothing in them that assumes Mark Twain is racist. It assumes only that people think he’s racist. What does she say is “like Mark Twain”? Just this: that people “think” he’s racist. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/63 "2015-01-27T23:14:10Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > It seems like you’re eliding between two claims. > > Are you wanting to discuss whether women _are funny_, or are you wanting people to talk about whether _they themselves_ are amused by female stand-up comedians? > > I myself find lots and lots of female stand-ups to be as funny as male stand-ups. I have never noticed a difference in my own amusement level. So is the discussion just: > > You: I don’t laugh when women tell jokes on stage. > Me: I do. > > ? > > If that’s what you’re looking for, then why do you keep phrasing it as though you instead want to have this discussion: > > You: Women aren’t as funny as men. > Me: Yes they are. Oh professor, I think you misjudge me. In the second sentence of my OP I said ’ It is about whether _female comedians_ are as good as males.’ In the fourth sentence I said ‘I disagree with the idea that women aren’t funny at all, however female comedians I’ve seen generally aren’t as good as male comedians’. Plus the documentary was about stand up comedy. Not female comedy writers, or female sketch comedy actresses, or female cartoonists, etc. To me, female stand up comedians aren’t nearly as good as males. In other areas women are as good or better than men (as I said, Allie Brosh is far and away the funniest cartoonist I’ve ever read). Part of my interest in the subject is why (again, to me in case other people haven’t gotten that part) are women good at non-stand up comedy but not stand up? Female actresses, writers, improv actors, sketch comedy actresses, etc. are all good. But in stand up I find female comedians really disappointing. So I listed 3 reasons why that could be the case (fewer to pick from, only attractive ones are given a choice to become well known, their humor is about stuff I can’t relate to). ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/64 "2015-01-27T23:19:59Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Oh professor, I think you misjudge me. I can’t misjudge what I haven’t judged. 😉 I’m trying to figure out what you’re asking. > [@](#): > > In the second sentence of my OP I said ’ It is about whether _female comedians_ are as good as males.’ > > In the fourth sentence I said ‘I disagree with the idea that women aren’t funny at all, however female comedians I’ve seen generally aren’t as good as male comedians’. Indeed. What is confusing me is that in that very post, and in subsequent posts, you talk, not about whether women are or are not funny, but about whether you yourself do or do not laugh at them. This is a completely different question. (See my previous post. In discussing one question, you and I are in no disagreement at all. In discussing the other question, it appears we do in fact disagree. So they’re clearly different questions.) I’m left not knowing which one you want to discuss. Some things you say seem try to avoid one in favor of the other, but then other things you say seem to have the reverse polarity so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/65 "2015-01-27T23:25:42Z")
Humor is subjective. However the documentary didn’t appear out of a vacuum. I am not the only one who finds female stand up comics to be not as good as males. If I were, documentaries like that wouldn’t be made. So I was wondering if I was alone in my views, and if not why. Again, Kathleen Madigan is the only consistently funny female stand up comedian I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/66 "2015-01-27T23:28:13Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > 1. That’s not in the title. > > 2. I take it you haven’t seen Gilda’s one woman show? It’s about a documentary made by a female comic about female comics. I’m pretty sure I saw Gilda’s show but it was long enough ago I don’t remember details. I would not consider many one man shows as stand up. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/67 "2015-01-27T23:44:26Z")
One stand-up standard that’s been idle for years and years is the two-comic team (it survives on drive time radio, in somewhat the same form). But if it is ever revived, I think women would excel at it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/68 "2015-01-27T23:48:38Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > That joke does not rely on an assumption that Mark Twain’s work was racist, but rather, it relies on an assumption that people think Mark Twain’s work is racist. It’s right there in the quoted words–there’s nothing in them that assumes Mark Twain is racist. It assumes only that people think he’s racist. What does she say is “like Mark Twain”? Just this: that people “think” he’s racist. She hopes that people will think that “_wow that’s actually kind of racist_.” Sorry, to me that saying she thinks Mark Twain’s work is “actually kind of racist.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/69 "2015-01-27T23:49:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > She hopes that people will think that “_wow that’s actually kind of racist_.” Sorry, to me that saying she thinks Mark Twain’s work is “actually kind of racist.” No need to apologize, it is no skin off my back if you prefer to ignore some of the words that make up a joke. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/70 "2015-01-27T23:56:23Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Humor is subjective. If so, then IMO you shouldn’t be asking whether women are funny or not. That question assumes an objective answer. So the discussion is supposed to be “Do people laugh less at female stand-up comics less than at males, and if so, why?” My answer to that is, yes they do, and the explanation in most cases is some gradation of misogyny or other. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/71 "2015-01-28T02:29:37Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > If so, then IMO you shouldn’t be asking whether women are funny or not. That question assumes an objective answer. > > So the discussion is supposed to be “Do people laugh less at female stand-up comics less than at males, and if so, why?” My answer to that is, yes they do, and the explanation in most cases is some gradation of misogyny or other. 😉 The documentary I watched that led to this thread consisted of a female stand up comic interviewing other stand up comics about whether women stand up comics were funny or not. The consensus among comedians was divided so I wanted to see what people here think. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/72 "2015-01-28T02:33:36Z")
Speaking as a guy who’s spent four years in the standup scene of a major media market, 1. Men outnumber women 20 to 1 in standup comedy. 2. On average, there is no appreciable difference in funniness, and 3. It is not the case that the most famous comedians are the funniest. #1 and #2 obviously make it much harder to find funny women on stage, but they can certainly be incredibly funny. I actually went up to a young lady last year, maybe 23, and told her “whatever you’re taking in school, it’s a waste of your time. You were born to be a comedian.” #3 is, I know, a weird thing to say but it’s true; I can effortlessly think of twenty comedians you’ll never heard of who are much, much funnier than, say, Dane Cook or Russell Peters. You haven’t seen Nigel Grinstead, Diana Bailey, Amanda Brooke Perrin or Todd Graham, and you may never have seen K. Trevor Wilson, but they’re funnier than a lot of people more famous. Who does and doesn’t become famous and successful is not always connected with the very funniest people; there’s obviously a very high correlation, but it’s not a perfect one. Some of the other actors include drive, self-marketing skill, and many elements of pure luck. It is not outlandish to suppose that women are not offered the same level of support as men. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/73 "2015-01-28T03:02:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > She hopes that people will think that “_wow that’s actually kind of racist_.” Sorry, to me that saying she thinks Mark Twain’s work is “actually kind of racist.” I’m pretty sure the woman who just won the Mark Twain award is well aware of Mark Twain and his work. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/74 "2015-01-28T15:24:22Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I don’t find it is the same about race. I can enjoy Chris Rock when he’s telling jokes about being an African-American. I can enjoy Akmal Saleh when he’s telling jokes about being an Egyptian-Australian. I cannot say the same is true of the jokes female comedians choose to tell about being women. This sounds like something in need of close examination. Do you think women are so different from men as to be completely unrelatable to? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/75 "2015-01-28T16:15:31Z")
It occurs to me that there is an analog for the humor often employed by female comics. I’ve noticed that as male comics get older they start telling jokes about having children and how that affects their lives. That is as unrelatable and unenjoyable to me as female relationship humor and hair problem jokes. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/76 "2015-01-28T16:41:50Z")
You can’t even imagine having children and finding humor in that, or going by your experience with your friends/family having children to find the humor? Is this an empathy thing? Do you (and Grumman) have trouble putting yourself in the shoes of another person different from you in general? (This is not meant as a knock on your characters; empathy is a morally neutral personality trait.) As a counter-example, my favorite comedian is Dave Chapelle, and I’m a white woman. I don’t need to have personal experience being a black man to find him funny. At the same time, the funniest person I know IRL is a woman, who makes me cry laughing every time I see her. She’s funny in the way that Dave Chapelle is funny – they don’t tell jokes with punchlines, they tell stories in hysterical ways. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/77 "2015-01-28T17:03:33Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > This sounds like something in need of close examination. Do you think women are so different from men as to be completely unrelatable to? Yup (and I said as much in a prior post, albeit a very short prior post). I find that when someone understands a successful joke\* but doesn’t find it funny, it is due to some presupposition in the joke which the person doesn’t think is true. \*Defined as a story intended to make some people laugh, which does make some people laugh ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/78 "2015-01-28T17:16:25Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > You can’t even imagine having children and finding humor in that, or going by your experience with your friends/family having children to find the humor? Oh I can see the humor. It just doesn’t hit as close to home with me because I haven’t lived it. It reminds me of when all my single friends got married and settled down, and we’d get together, and they would start talking about which lawnmowers to buy. I can empathize with their concerns about lawn care but still not really enjoy the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/79 "2015-01-28T17:42:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > . Some of the other actors include drive, self-marketing skill, and many elements of pure luck. It is not outlandish to suppose that women are not offered the same level of support as men. On top of that (as YOU would know way better than I), the lifestyle of a person trying to make a living as a comedian isn’t all that appealing! It involves a LOT of travel, a lot of crappy clubs, a lot of working for peanuts until you develop some kind of reputation. Whether you’re an aspiring rock star or an aspiring comedian, you’re liable to spend years living on the road in squalor. A woman who has other options, I’d wager, is going to get tired of that kind of life sooner than a man. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956/80 "2015-01-28T21:15:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > #3 is, I know, a weird thing to say but it’s true; I can effortlessly think of twenty comedians you’ll never heard of who are much, much funnier than, say, Dane Cook or Russell Peters. To be fair, I’ve seen school shootings that were funnier than Dane Cook. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-documentary-women-arent-funny-is-it-true-or-not/710956.md?page=5)