# The Domincan Republic is preparing to engage in ethnic cleansing. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698 "2015-06-16T19:37:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/1 "2015-06-16T19:37:45Z")
> **[Daily Kos](https://www.dailykos.com)** > > Daily Kos is a progressive news site that fights for democracy by giving our audience information and resources to win elections and impact government. Our coverage is assiduously factual, ethical, and unapologetically liberal. We amplify what we... > [@](#): > > In two days about a quarter of a million people will be made stateless. They will have no homes, no passports, and no civil rights. There are several reasons for this, but the primary reason is racism. > > At issue is a ruling by the Constitutional Court in the Dominican Republic to strip away the citizenship of several generations of Dominicans. > > ``` > According to the decision, Dominicans born after 1929 to parents who are not of Dominican ancestry are to have their citizenship revoked. The ruling affects an estimated 250,000 Dominican people of Haitian descent, including many who have had no personal connection with Haiti for several generations. > > ``` > > … > The Dominican government recently opened seven deportation centers near the Haitian border, and gave them the Orwellian name of "welcome centers”. > The Dominican government has also requested 36 large passenger buses “be made available for continued use”. They’re about to dump 250,000 people into the poorest nation in the hemisphere, which has difficulty housing even it’s current population. Read the full article. This is racism; lighter skinned versus darker skinned. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/2 "2015-06-16T19:50:43Z")
While racism may be a factor, it appears (at least on the surface) to be a matter of national sovereignty. The Haitians are not Dominican citizens - they should be able to claim citizenship in Haiti. The Dominican Republic doesn’t appear to have \*jus soli \*, the right of citizenship upon birth on Dominican soil. So these folks never had Dominican citizenship to begin with. It’s not a good situation for anyone involved, but to ascribe it solely to racism seems misguided. There are plenty of reasons why the government would want to do this. This looks like a political and economic issue more than anything else. I’m sure there are racial factors but I wouldn’t hazard a guess as to how important they are in the big picture. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/3 "2015-06-16T19:57:27Z")
It’s not racism. The DR is simply practicing the principle of citizenship used by most sovereign states worldwide. The DR has no obligation to provide for the welfare of some other nation’s citizens. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/4 "2015-06-16T20:21:36Z")
They are **stripping the citizenship** of people who have been there for several generations based on their ethnic background. And racism is certainly a factor. > **[Op-Ed: In the Dominican Republic, suddenly stateless](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kurlansky-haiti-dominican-republic-citizensh-20131110-story.html)** > > Dominicans of Haitian descent are losing their citizenship as their nation reinstates an old form of racism. > **[Dominican Republic citizenship ruling stirs outcry across Caribbean](https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-dominican-republic-citizens-20131101-story.html)** > > Caribbean neighbors criticize a high court ruling in the Dominican Republic that strips the citizenship of more than 200,000 people, mostly of Haitian ancestry, born in the country. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/5 "2015-06-16T20:29:14Z")
Is their citizen actually being stripped? That is, are they actually considered citizens now, or is that they consider themselves to be citizens, regardless of what the state says. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/6 "2015-06-16T20:35:31Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > While racism may be a factor, it appears (at least on the surface) to be a matter of national sovereignty. The Haitians are not Dominican citizens - they should be able to claim citizenship in Haiti. The Dominican Republic doesn’t appear to have \*jus soli \*, the right of citizenship upon birth on Dominican soil. So these folks never had Dominican citizenship to begin with. > > It’s not a good situation for anyone involved, but to ascribe it solely to racism seems misguided. There are plenty of reasons why the government would want to do this. This looks like a political and economic issue more than anything else. I’m sure there are racial factors but I wouldn’t hazard a guess as to how important they are in the big picture. Are you actually reading the links, these people HAVE citizenship RIGHT NOW, it is being TAKEN AWAY by a new constitution passed five years ago. This is retroactive legislation, which should be illegal. Imagine a US citizen born in the USA, told their citizenship is being stripped and they can go try to get citizenship from a country they have never been to. That country has no obligation to offer citizenship to them, and they may not even be able to document the relationship to grand or great grandparents. Not that long ago there was no concept of immigration control in the carribean, people moved from island to island willy nilly. My wife’s grandmother didn’t even have a BC, they think she was born in St Vincent. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/7 "2015-06-16T20:41:20Z")
I’m confused. The banner headline date is today. The dates by the writer’s name is 2 years old. When were these stories written? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/8 "2015-06-16T20:56:37Z")
This article from the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/world/americas/migrant-workers-in-dominican-republic-most-of-them-haitian-face-deportation.html?_r=0) explains the issues. In 2013, there was a decision to strip citizenship from some Haitian immigrants, including children of some immigrants. International outcry lead to softening of that position, and a new law was passed that includes registration and nationalization procedures (which are still controversial). Today (June 16, 2015), the country is planning to start deporting a large number of migrant workers, who are undocumented and are not citizens. This action has lead news organizations to recall the separate citizenship issue, and write stories that conflate the two and cause confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/9 "2015-06-16T20:57:48Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Imagine a US citizen born in the USA, told their citizenship is being stripped and they can go try to get citizenship from a country they have never been to. The Dominican Republic doesn’t have Jus Soil, so these people were granted citizenship on the premise that their parents were citizens. If they were later found to have been not citizens then their children’s citizenship is also not legit. The country could make an exception, they could decide on humanitarian grounds to keep their citizenship, or make other arrangements, but I don’t see that they’re required by law to do so. If I were one of these people I’d be upset, worried, and scrambling to deal with the situation. It sucks, on every level. But it sounds mostly legal, if a shitty thing to do. Granted, I know little about international law and whether that really is legal. The US can strip citizenship for naturalized citizens - [http://immigration.findlaw.com/citizenship/can-your-u-s-citizenship-be-revoked-.html](http://immigration.findlaw.com/citizenship/can-your-u-s-citizenship-be-revoked-.html) This can also apply to children of these people: > [@](#): > > Children granted citizenship based on their parent’s status may also lose their citizenship after that parent has been denaturalized. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/10 "2015-06-16T21:00:12Z")
The New York Times does a much better job with the story, including the important fact that undocumented workers (most, BUT not all of whom are Haitian) can register, but most haven’t. The courts did strip the citizenship of the children of these undocumented workers (to which they had no actual claim), BUT it did offer citizenship to the children whose births were in the national registry. Those who weren’t in the registry could apply for legal residency and eventually citizenship if they could prove they were born in the DR. > **[Haitian Workers Facing Deportation by Dominican Neighbors (Published 2015)](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/world/americas/migrant-workers-in-dominican-republic-most-of-them-haitian-face-deportation.html?_r=0)** > > Undocumented workers in the Dominican Republic have until Wednesday to register their presence in the country, in the hope of ultimately being allowed to stay. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/11 "2015-06-16T22:50:25Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Are you actually reading the links, these people HAVE citizenship RIGHT NOW, it is being TAKEN AWAY by a new constitution passed five years ago. This is retroactive legislation, which should be illegal. Factually incorrect. Read the Times article. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/12 "2015-06-17T01:56:04Z")
OP: do you understand that just because the United States has a constitutional provision granting citizenship to anyone born within its borders…that doesn’t create some sort of natural law that ALL countries must. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/13 "2015-06-17T02:37:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OP: do you understand that just because the United States has a constitutional provision granting citizenship to anyone born within its borders…that doesn’t create some sort of natural law that ALL countries must. > > Right? There is this from The American Convention on Human Rights, which the DR signed: > [@](#): > > Article 20. Right to Nationality > > 1. Every person has the right to a nationality. > > 2. Every person has the right to the nationality of the state in whose territory he was born if he does not have the right to any other nationality. > > 3. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality or of the right to change it. I have no idea how legally binding that is. ETA: [:: Multilateral Treaties \> Department of International Law \> OAS ::](http://www.oas.org/dil/treaties_B-32_American_Convention_on_Human_Rights.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/14 "2015-06-17T02:49:01Z")
The thread title is misleading and hyperbolic. Ethnic cleansing is normally reserved for actions like genocide, not deportation, at least in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/15 "2015-06-17T02:51:07Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > There is this from The American Convention on Human Rights, which the DR signed: > > I have no idea how legally binding that is. > > ETA: [:: Multilateral Treaties \> Department of International Law \> OAS ::](http://www.oas.org/dil/treaties_B-32_American_Convention_on_Human_Rights.htm) I’m not sure what you think that proves. The people in question have the right to Haitian citizenship. The deprivation of Dominican citizenship is not arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/16 "2015-06-17T02:54:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not sure what you think that proves. The people in question have the right to Haitian citizenship. The deprivation of Dominican citizenship is not arbitrary. Do they? I don’t know. What if the Haitian Government decides they don’t? Also, there’s statement 3. I’m not saying it’s solid, but rights have been found in the US constitution on shakier grounds, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/17 "2015-06-17T02:55:19Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The thread title is misleading and hyperbolic. Ethnic cleansing is normally reserved for actions like genocide, not deportation, at least in my opinion. [No, it’s not.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing#Ethnic_cleansing_vs._genocide) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/18 "2015-06-17T03:09:05Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Do they? I don’t know. [Yes.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis) > [@](#): > > Also, there’s statement 3. What is arbitrary about this action? Most countries do NOT operate under _jus soli_, as the US does. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/19 "2015-06-17T03:13:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > [Yes.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis) > > What is arbitrary about this action? Most countries do NOT operate under _jus soli_, as the US does. You are shattering my dreams of a legal career. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/20 "2015-06-17T03:23:46Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > You are shattering my dreams of a legal career. ☹ Think of it as the best favor anyone ever did for you. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698.md?page=2)