# The Domincan Republic is preparing to engage in ethnic cleansing. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698 "2015-06-16T19:37:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/61 "2015-06-17T17:33:45Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > This is absolutely wrong. From the Wikipedia article on [jus soli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli) (the right of anyone born in the territory of a state to nationality or citizenship):The article also includes a nice world map indicating the countries where jus soli applies. You are factually correct, but missing the larger picture. The fact that the U.S. rejects the archaic European notion of inherited racial citizenship is a fundamental pillar of why we are the superior country. Other countries’ refusal to join us in modernity is, while a true fact about their law, a sign of their backwardness. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/62 "2015-06-17T17:40:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t think he has any clue what this means, **kellner.** I guess I’m just an idiot then, eh? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/63 "2015-06-17T17:43:39Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > This is absolutely wrong. From the Wikipedia article on [jus soli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli) (the right of anyone born in the territory of a state to nationality or citizenship):The article also includes a nice world map indicating the countries where jus soli applies. I honestly appreciate your help, but I’m not talking about merely _Jus soli_. Dividing the world into _Jus soli_ and _Jus sanguinis_, is helpful, but not completely reflective in the actual way countries define citizenship. It’s just too simplistic as seen in the Italy case, \*\*Bricker \*\*referred to. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/64 "2015-06-17T17:46:26Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > [URL=“[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/06/16/the-bloody-origins-of-the-dominican-republics-ethnic-cleansing-of-haitians/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/06/16/the-bloody-origins-of-the-dominican-republics-ethnic-cleansing-of-haitians/)”]Then, in 2013, the country’s Constitutional Court ruled that no longer would people born in the Dominican Republic automatically be considered citizens. The rule, the court decided, would retroactively apply to anyone born after 1929. That author hasn’t read, or did not understand, the court’s decision. And neither have you, I suspect. Have you? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/65 "2015-06-17T17:47:48Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > You are factually correct, but missing the larger picture. The fact that the U.S. rejects the archaic European notion of inherited racial citizenship is a fundamental pillar of why we are the superior country. Other countries’ refusal to join us in modernity is, while a true fact about their law, a sign of their backwardness. It’s a sign of their history - and ours. The original _jus soli_ inhabitants of the United States were killed off and marginalized by the arrival of the Europeans. Because almost everyone here, and especially the people with power, is an immigrant, it made sense to base citizenship on physical location rather than background. That doesn’t make our system morally superior. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/66 "2015-06-17T17:48:04Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I guess I’m just an idiot then, eh? So far, your posts demonstrate a dramatic lack of understanding of the relevant law. That doesn’t make you an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/67 "2015-06-17T17:51:47Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Is that a retroactive law? And does Italy provide other means of automatically giving citizenship to those who were born/raised in the country?[URL=“[Italian nationality law - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Italian_nationality_law#Acquisition_of_citizenship)”] You understand that what you quoted does not involve automatic citizenship? You cut out all the ways Italy grants citizenship automatically, and then included the words “By special application,” and then the words describing how those born and residing in Italy can attain citizenship: that is, by special application. Not automatically. Do you now understand? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/68 "2015-06-17T17:54:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You understand that what you quoted does not involve automatic citizenship? > > You cut out all the ways Italy grants citizenship automatically, and then included the words “By special application,” and then the words describing how those born and residing in Italy can attain citizenship: that is, by special application. Not automatically. > > Do you now understand? Yes, you’re right it was not nested. My bad. Special application is still relevant to my point. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/69 "2015-06-17T17:57:56Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Yes, you’re right it was not nested. My bad. Special application is still relevant to my point. Well, here’s what you first said: > [@orcenio](#): > > I’ll read more, but this doesn’t sound like a simple matter of _jus soli_; people born, raised, and living in a country, fall under any reasonable definition of citizen. Now, do you understand that Italy does not follow this rule? Someone born, raised, and living in Italy is not defined as a citizen in Italy. Such a person requires special application to become a citizen of Italy. Do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/70 "2015-06-17T18:02:26Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I guess I’m just an idiot then, eh? Well, not to be a sycophant, but yes, man. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/71 "2015-06-17T18:04:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, here’s what you first said: > > Now, do you understand that Italy does not follow this rule? Someone born, raised, and living in Italy is not defined as a citizen in Italy. Such a person requires special application to become a citizen of Italy. > > Do you agree? Christ. Yes, they require a special application. My point is that Italy provides this to people who are born, raised, and living in the country. They do it because they recognize while they are not citizens by blood, they still are citizens of the country under any rational means. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/72 "2015-06-17T18:05:21Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > It’s a sign of their history - and ours. The original _jus soli_ inhabitants of the United States were killed off and marginalized by the arrival of the Europeans. Because almost everyone here, and especially the people with power, is an immigrant, it made sense to base citizenship on physical location rather than background. That doesn’t make our system morally superior. Rejecting the notion of racial superiority and the mystical mumbo-jumbo of “blood and soil” citizenship certainly does make the U.S. morally superior. The fact that the Dominican Republic has previously engaged in genocide based on its lack of a similar system and is currently planning on mass expulsions for the same reason is a handy reminder why. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/73 "2015-06-17T18:09:12Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Well, not to be a sycophant, but yes, man. Alright well then educate me. I would like to read up on a country that denies citizenship to people born and raised in country. I’m not above reading. Just point me in a good direction. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/74 "2015-06-17T18:14:16Z")
Bricker will find this hard to believe but a person can understand the legal issues and law and GASP disagree with whether it is right or moral. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/75 "2015-06-17T18:15:53Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Alright well then educate me. I would like to read up on a country that denies citizenship to people born and raised in country. I’m not above reading. Just point me in a good direction. Countries that only have jus sanguinus citizenship, it doesn’t matter where you are born in these countries only that you have a parent who can transmit. Some further restrict it to only fathers etc. While this is the law, it isn’t moral. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/76 "2015-06-17T18:20:56Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Bricker will find this hard to believe but a person can understand the legal issues and law and GASP disagree with whether it is right or moral. I don’t know about that, but you obviously can’t understand that your morality is not universally held, nor can it be objectively proven to be better. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/77 "2015-06-17T18:36:20Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Alright well then educate me. I would like to read up on a country that denies citizenship to people born and raised in country. I’m not above reading. Just point me in a good direction. Saudi Arabia. Here’s an [article](http://www.arabnews.com/news/692646) about a rumour that this might be changed that turned out to be false. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/78 "2015-06-17T18:36:22Z")
Who can say whether ethnic cleansing is right or wrong these days, what with all our modern ideas…and products? It’s truly inspiring to watch American conservatives rush to embrace the superiority of a crackpot third-world country’s policies over the U.S. The anti-immigration obsession really runs deep. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/79 "2015-06-17T18:39:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How many countries in the world accept your definition? [Quite a few.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#National_laws) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698/80 "2015-06-17T18:40:33Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Who can say whether ethnic cleansing is right or wrong these days, what with all our modern ideas…and products? Your ability to be an idiot in 2 threads simultaneously is truly astounding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-domincan-republic-is-preparing-to-engage-in-ethnic-cleansing/722698.md?page=5)