# The Door to Certain Death **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2004, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617 "2004-10-05T07:32:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/61 "2004-10-05T21:07:30Z")
Litigation may be way out of hand in this country, but it is well within your rights to expect homeowner’s insurance to pay for an injury of this type. A similar thing happened to my mother, her best friend tripped on a small unmarked step in the sidewalk just outside my mom’s townhouse, fell and broke her nose on the stairs to my mom’s house. She pursued damages to pay for her medical bills. They owed her, they paid her. That’s what my mom pays her insurance for. There was no B.S. behind it all. It’s simple. As it is in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/62 "2004-10-05T21:12:36Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > Litigation may be way out of hand in this country, but it is well within your rights to expect homeowner’s insurance to pay for an injury of this type. A similar thing happened to my mother, her best friend tripped on a small unmarked step in the sidewalk just outside my mom’s townhouse, fell and broke her nose on the stairs to my mom’s house. She pursued damages to pay for her medical bills. They owed her, they paid her. That’s what my mom pays her insurance for. There was no B.S. behind it all. It’s simple. > As it is in this case. Yes, but be aware that the homeowner may end up paying the bill ten times over. Some insurance companies will greatly increase your premiums or cancel your coverage after claims are made, even if they are completely out of your control. (I personally think this should be illegal, as it penalizes you for using the insurance you’re paying for, but that’s a topic for another thread.) My sister’s mother-in-law made a claim on her (sister’s) homeowner insurance after she fell in their driveway. The medical bill was a few hundred dollars, my sister’s premiums are now at least a thousand dollars more a year. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/63 "2004-10-05T21:18:42Z")
FWIW, whether you could collect for something like this depends on which state you live in. Some states have “contributory negligence” laws - if you in any way contributed to your injury with your own negligence (such as forgetting an oral warning), you cannot recover anything. Other states have a “comparative negligence” scheme - if both the defendant and the plaintiff were negligent, the jury determines the percentage of cause for each party, the amount of damage (in dollars) to the plaintiff, and awards the plaintiff the damage amount multiplied by the percentage the defendant was at fault. (IIRC, if the plaintiff is found more at fault, some states disallow any recovery.) I think this would be an interesting case to see in the latter system. It seems to me that each party was negligent to some degree. Thank goodness your brother wasn’t hurt worse. I hope he heals well and quickly! ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/64 "2004-10-05T22:35:47Z")
> [@START](#): > > She warned us once not to open that door and later my brother forgot and walked out of it. He was very lucky, he didn’t die or become paralyzed, or even break a leg although he did break his ankle. He also has a broken arm, dislocated shoulder and bruised ribs and ego. He landed on one foot and tumbled somehow it actually looked comical. I honestly didn’t think he got hurt, silly me. > So please wish my brother a speedy recovery and **pray** (or do whatever you do) that this lady will take some responsibility for being stupid enough to have an unlocked door in her house that leads to nowhere :smack: . > She kept saying that her husband almost fell out of it…“then why don’t you keep it locked :wally !?” > Now she is saying she\* might \* help with the medical expenses and my mother’s response is “Whatever you can do”. > I have no say but I wanted to say “Uh mom were kind of on the poor side…Do the words pain and suffering mean anything to you?” I hope your brother’s recovery is fast and complete. That accident could’ve been a lot worse. Given the circumstances you described, I certainly wouldn’t hold it against you and your mother if you sought recovery of some sort. (Of course, since I am an attorney, my opinion on this matter is somewhat biased.) Since I don’t know where you live, I can’t comment on what the tort law there is like (e.g., comparative negligence or contributory negligence) or what the statute of limitations (i.e., how long your brother would have to file suit) is. However, I’m sure you if you ask around, you can find a good attorney in your town who will not only be able to inform you and your mother about what your rights are and how strong your case is but also won’t charge you for first consultation. Also, from my own experience in cases like this, it’s usually the defendant’s insurer who ends up calling the shots and paying the bills. Most of the time, the parties settle without actually going to trial. Still, YMMV so you should probably see an attorney at least once in this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/65 "2004-10-05T22:47:18Z")
I should add that while I personally think forgetting an oral warning constitutes negligence, such a question would be for a jury to determine. So even if you live in a contributory negligence state, the best way to find out your rights and chances of winning is to consult an attorney. In NC, you can call the state bar association and they’ll give you contact information for a lawyer who has agreed upfront to give a consultation for a set (low) fee. Google your state bar association, and you’ll probably find an appropriate contact number. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/66 "2004-10-06T00:32:37Z")
I’m a little disappointed that ‘nowhere’ actually means ‘somewhere’ here - surely it would have been much more interesting if the door opened onto genuine nothingness. (On reflection, I’m not sure if nothingness can possess such a quality as ‘genuineness’). ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/67 "2004-10-06T06:03:02Z")
Before I answer the questions that came up I have a morbid question. If my brother had died would he have been nominated for a so called Darwin Award? I could have pitted my brother for walking out of the door after being warned, or even myself for not reminding him because I remembered but I didn’t know he was going to open it until the last second, then again who keeps a door like that unlocked? My brother is 13 years old. We have been to this house in the past, before the steps had been removed. The lower portion of the house is very immaculate, there are many porcelain dolls, light colored carpet, etc and although we are welcomed to be down there being upstairs is a better way to pass the time. Up top you have a playstation, computer and all that. The husband likes video games, we like video games. We don’t go there every week or anything but when we do go we usually stay for an extended time they used to have a foster kid that my brother was friends with and the husband is pretty cool _he let’s us get comfortable_. For example; If we said we were hungry he would tell us to “raid the fridge”. Just using that as one example you could see that we were not sneaking around a stranger’s house. The verbal warning was this as I remember it; “Boys you don’t wanna see what’s on the other side of the door” I say “What?” “It’s a straight drop” I laughed and she said “No I’m serious the stairs aren’t there anymore” I say “Your not joking” and my mom’s friend confirms that it is no joke. Now I will describe the incident trying to be as detailed as possible and from there the Doper community can decide whether to use this thread against me in the event I get pitted in the future. We were in the “Video Room” and we were playing Grand Theft Auto. The husband had started playing and after a while I thought the room was getting stuffy and that was my reason for wanting to exit the FRONT DOOR of the house not the death trap door. I think my brother on the other hand was bored and wanted to play with their dog, I say “I think” because I didn’t ask him but I am almost 100 per cent sure that’s why he wanted to go outside. He had a dog treat stuffed in the pocket of the pants he was wearing so I’m making a pretty safe assumption. In the past it was easier to walk out of that side door and go downstairs and play with the dog. Anyway I get up and say to the husband “I will be right back” my brother says “me too” and gets up and walks out of the room. The husband was playing “GTA” and told us to hurry back. I had gotten up first but my brother had walked past me when we were coming down the stairs. We get to the area in between the upper story and the lower story and my brother put’s his hand on the door knob. The door opens outward, I think if it opened inward he might not have fallen. I was looking at him but it didn’t register right that second and I said “Don’t…” he turned looked at me and I think he said “hurry up” or “come on”. Then he walked into the air, he made this scream and I ran up the door and saw him crash land. Like I said before the way he landed looked comical and he didn’t begin crying right away so I’m not thinking anything serious happened until he reverts to pre-school and starts crying “mommy”. Then I was like my brother the tough guy is crying for his mommy, oh crap. After that my mom and her friend hear the crying and run outside and asks him if he can see how many fingers…, do you know your name, etc. My mom is going crazy and her friend is telling my brother not to move. The husband thought it was a prank at first when he came out. As my mother describes it and I don’t neccescarily disagree God sent an ambulance down the street soon after my brother fell, it was flagged down but for some reason we still had to wait for the fire truck but the paramedics did first aid. Lil’ bro got to the hospital and that was that. Now as for the matter of the suing for pain and suffering I just want to say again that it was simply a thought in my head and I’d say a fairly harmless one since I know my mom doesn’t really want to pressure her friend for what might be considered reasonable medical expenses which we can’t afford I know that suing for pain and suffering will never be more than wishful thinking. Hopefully my mom’s friend will be cool about it and give us some money for a big screen TV…I mean medical expenses. _One more thing male dopers didn’t that toilet seat story just make you cringe?_ ---
**Author:** ![Flamsterette\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@Flamsterette\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flamsterette_X)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/68 "2004-10-06T07:29:26Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > At least your brother didn’t walk out the door at the [Winchester Mystery House](http://www.winchestermysteryhouse.com/) that leads nowhere. Then he would have fallen from the third story instead. Apparently they’ve permanently sealed the door; it used to just have a rope and a sign warning that the door opened onto thin air. Ha, that’s exactly what I was thinking of! Hope your brother’s doing better. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/69 "2004-10-06T07:50:08Z")
I know of one legitimate use for a door like that, actually. In Lake Tahoe, it regularly snows several feet at a time. Many houses have a door that opens outside on the second story, so that if the snow should get that high people can still get in and out without so much digging. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/70 "2004-10-06T11:05:42Z")
This thread now reminds me of a scene from _Biloxi Blues_. The guys are having a story telling contest, each saying what his greatest fantasy would be with only a week left to live. One says he wants to bang the Queen of England. Another says he wants to perform on Broadway. Another says he wants to screw a hundred women. And so on. But one of the guys says that he wants to spend time with his family. Jerome is the judge, and he decides that he likes the family time fantasy best. Suddenly, the hundred-women guy cries foul. “Oh, bullshit, Jerome! If _that’s_ how you’re gonna judge it, I’m changing my story. I want to visit sick children in the hospital and spend time with Hennesey’s family!” ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/71 "2004-10-06T13:41:54Z")
> [@START](#): > > . . . God sent an ambulance down the street soon after my brother fell . . . You don’t have 911 in your town? Seriously, though, how’s your brother doing today? ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/72 "2004-10-06T14:06:44Z")
> [@START](#): > > As my mother describes it and I don’t neccescarily disagree God sent an ambulance down the street soon after my brother fell… If God had been paying closer attention, He could have sent an air mattress down the street and under the door and saved your brother a lot of hurt. How’s your bro’ doing today? If I lived close to ya, I’d ask to sign his cast. ---
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/73 "2004-10-06T16:15:20Z")
They should change the name. It’s misleading. I mean, he didn’t even DIE… what a cheat… Oh, **Start** I don’t think this way dumb enough for a Darwin. Now, if said hubby had said, "Don’t go out this door - it’s a 10’ drop - see? " Opened the door, then stumbled out… THAT would be a Darwin… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/74 "2004-10-06T17:28:11Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > Litigation may be way out of hand in this country, but it is well within your rights to expect homeowner’s insurance to pay for an injury of this type. A similar thing happened to my mother, her best friend tripped on a small unmarked step in the sidewalk just outside my mom’s townhouse, fell and broke her nose on the stairs to my mom’s house. She pursued damages to pay for her medical bills. They owed her, they paid her. That’s what my mom pays her insurance for. There was no B.S. behind it all. It’s simple. > As it is in this case. Oh, I definitely agree the homeowner should pay for the medical bills and what not. She is certainly responsible for the safety of someone, especially a child, that is in her home. All I am saying is I don’t think the injured party should seek any further compensation. He broke his ankle, not his neck. Seeking further damages would be ridiculous. And by the way, I am not minimizing the pain of a broken ankle and the anguish of “what could have happened.” I am sure Start and Mama Start and Brother Start were mortified by the incident and rightfully so. ---
**Author:** ![Boldface\_Type](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Boldface\_Type](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boldface_Type)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/75 "2004-10-06T17:44:38Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’ve read this six times now and still can’t make heads or tails of it. > > On the outside, the door is 10 feet above ground, with no stairs? And that’s due to a slope? Isn’t it obvious? What he’s saying is that the door on the _inside_ side of the slope is the same side as the outside slope door. You _can_ recognise easily the door because the inside choice of stairs is congruent with the angle **of** the lie of the slope tilt (outside _and_ in). If you’ve not seen the door you’d notice it because - to cut a large story sideways - the door-inspection gives a reason, slope and sideways. Upon second inspection, it is clear that the space between up and around is probably 10 feet of the angle of pitch of the tilt of the inside of the side of the inner slope (inside and out). And that’s why **Liberal** recognised the door shortly before he first saw it. HTH. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/76 "2004-10-06T21:30:05Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > Isn’t it obvious? It’s obvious that I need an aspirin. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/77 "2004-10-06T21:58:30Z")
That has to be the first time someone has paraphrased **Lib** and made it _more_ confusing. ---
**Author:** ![snermy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@snermy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snermy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/78 "2004-10-07T03:26:31Z")
At _13 years old?_. I don’t know how dark it was, or how used he is to using the door… But Christ! What’s wrong with warning someone, and then expecting them to pay attention? When I was a kid of about 11 up, my grandparents were renovating by hand an old farm house. And for many years they had various intersesting situations like, a basement with no floor over half of it (we’d balance across on the beams for fun), those old twisty stairs without a railing until granpa got around to getting one up, etc. Even, for a fairly long period, an upstairs door directly over the front door, that lead into nowhere, 1 story up. (where they’d removed a rotting porch/balcony setup). It wasn’t locked, although it did have a latch and bolt. And we didn’t go lean against it either, because we weren’t morons. It was even open periodically, for the cross-breeze, and even the damn cat knew better than to blithely run out of it. Cuz he wasn’t a moron either, though he was happy to sit a watch the birdies. I also helped my grandpa take out the chimney, and while he was doing that there was a chimney sized hole in the floor. And guess what? Nobody fell down it. It was fun. Kids like to smash things. It was also a great education in “how things work”, 1900’s style (you don’t find too many houses any more built with lathe and plaster walls.) At home we also had horses (weighing at about half a ton each, and aren’t particularly sensible), things with cutting edges, trees to climb, sleds for hurtling down icy slopes and lots of giant farm equipment. Christ, suburban kids and their bubble-wrapped lives! Don’t buy the crack, don’t play with the chainsaw you found in the garage, and for god’s sake when someone points out the large gaping hole, don’t walk into it. Jeez. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/79 "2004-10-07T11:19:06Z")
For fuck’s sake. Is nobody supposed to take responsibility for their actions in America any longer? Person: “Oops, I fell. That was silly of me. I oughta have been looking where I was going.” Lawyer: “Don’t be silly. You shouldn’t have to _look where you’re going_. You should be able to mooch through life like cattle, with a bag of corn chips in one hand and an iPod in the other, oblivious to the real world. If anything gets in your way or impedes your progress, or trips you up, you can get a fat cheque from whoever put it there.” Person: “Shit, I didn’t know that. Thanks!” Lawyer: “Don’t mention it. That’ll be $750, plus 50% of the settlement.” I’d love to see JUST ONE example of a case where some clown hurt themselves and didn’t get a payout thanks to some fat fuck ambulance chaser. When your insurance premiums exceed your annual salary, don’t say I didn’t try to warn you. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617/80 "2004-10-07T13:27:04Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I’d love to see JUST ONE example of a case where some clown hurt themselves and didn’t get a payout thanks to some fat fuck ambulance chaser. 1. Three years ago, my sister tripped over an uneven sidewalk in NYC and broke her knee. Didn’t sue anyone. 2. Two years ago, I tripped over a curb and broke my elbow. Didn’t sue anyone. 3. This year, my mother fell trying to get out of her hospital bed when the nurse didn’t answer the bell quickly enough and broke her arm. Didn’t sue anyone. And yes, we are a family of complete klutzes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-door-to-certain-death/267617.md?page=5)