# The Doors on Ed Sullivan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 11, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628 "2016-07-11T02:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/81 "2016-07-18T22:54:08Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Ed Sullivin was a total twat. Always trying to force artists into doing unethical things like changing their art to suit his and his conservative audiences beliefs just so he could make more money. Yeah. Never mind what they agreed to before the performance. ( It would seem to me a form of estoppel is involved here.) ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/82 "2016-07-19T02:50:59Z")
If you can produce the contract that The Doors signed and Ed Sullivan signed and the TV people signed then I’ll join your side and condemn The Doors. Until then I’m going to side with the artists as they have always been persecuted by the man. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/83 "2016-07-19T04:30:30Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > If you can produce the contract that The Doors signed and Ed Sullivan signed and the TV people signed then I’ll join your side and condemn The Doors. Until then I’m going to side with the artists as they have always been persecuted by the man. PERSECUTED! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/84 "2016-07-19T06:58:30Z")
Fight the power! Hell no, we won’t go! Hell no, we won’t go! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/85 "2016-07-19T14:37:12Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > PERSECUTED! :rolleyes: I see you have declined to back up your claim, and on the Straight Dope no less. :dubious: What has this place turned into? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/86 "2016-07-19T15:58:33Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Don’t blame the teenagers, Guinastasia; TV is no great shakes when it comes to sound. It sure wasn’t in 1967. It’s amazing - and laughable - how threadbare the PA system (and the personnel manning it) were on those early Beatles appearances on _Ed Sullivan._ At one point, the Beatles were preceded by comedian Myron Cohen (who was considerably shorter than John Lennon) and the stage hands apparently forgot to re-adjust his mic stand. The sound people also had one of the mic’s turned way down. So for the first minute of “I Saw Her Standing There”, John’s harmony boomed over Paul’s lead. John also had to bend to reach his mic. He eventually stopped playing his guitar long enough to adjust the stand, about the time that the mic levels were adjusted properly. It would have been an embarrassment on a local amateur night. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/87 "2016-07-19T16:08:50Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I see you have declined to back up your claim, and on the Straight Dope no less. :dubious: What has this place turned into? 😕 I would be hard put to produce documentation on this. I find it hard to countenance a professional performer who chafes at having to observe any kind of rules. Sullivan and the network set the parameters and it was The Doors’ obligation to recognize that and abide by it, whether they liked it or not. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/88 "2016-07-19T16:34:57Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Alternate universe scenario: > > Ed Sullivan: Boys, I’d like you to perform your big hit “Light My Fire” on this week’s show, but I’m not happy about that line about getting high. You can’t say that on my show. How about changing it to “Girl, we couldn’t get much better”? Robbie, you wrote the song, right? How does that sound to you? > > Robbie Krieger: Well, Mr. Sullivan, I wouldn’t mind myself, but I don’t think our singer would be comfortable singing that line. Besides, it doesn’t rhyme. > > Ed Sullivan: Hmm. All right, we’re going to have to forget that song. What about your other single, “Break on Through”? That’s not about getting high, is it? > > John Densmore: Umm, actually, Mr. Sullivan, Jim does sing “She gets high! She gets high!” in the middle of that one. > > Robbie Krieger: Yeah, the record company cut it out, but Jim always sings it live. > > Ed Sullivan: Oh, for God’s sake. [Picks up a copy of the Doors’ album] “Soul Kitchen”? “The Crystal Ship”? Those sound too weird. “20th Century Fox”? I’m not giving them a free plug. “Alabama Song”? Sounds controversial. “Back Door Man”? Forget it! Here we go: “The End.” You may think I’m an old square, but I know what that means in hippie talk. It’s like “way out” and “groovy.” That’s the sort of thing the kids like to hear. Does _that_ one have “get high” in the lyrics? > > Ray Manzarek: Uhhh…no, sir. > > Ed Sullivan: Good. Do it. Ha! Mother, I want to aaaarrrrrrgh! ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/89 "2016-07-19T20:02:52Z")
> [@NoCoolUserName](#): > > Ha! > > Mother, I want to aaaarrrrrrgh! You know Ed should have been happy that Jim didn’t kill him, make love to Ethel Merman, and poke his own eyes out right onstage. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/90 "2016-07-19T20:24:39Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You know Ed should have been happy that Jim didn’t kill him, make love to Ethel Merman, and poke his own eyes out right onstage. I know nothing of the kind, Mister. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/91 "2016-07-19T20:35:46Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I find it hard to countenance a professional performer who chafes at having to observe any kind of rules. Sullivan and the network set the parameters and it was The Doors’ obligation to recognize that and abide by it, whether they liked it or not. I hope I’m not belaboring the point, but… - At that time, Jim Morrison was all of 23 years old, and the band was only a few months removed from playing gigs at high schools. - Morrison himself was known for rebellion against authority (stemming back to his upbringing – he was the son of a Navy admiral), and engaging in odd behavior and stunts (though I think that became more pronounced in the years after the Sullivan appearance). - They were a counterculture band, at the height of the 1960s counterculture movement. Sullivan’s request that they change the lyrics was just the sort of uptight thing that you could have expected (even predicted) that they would have rebelled against, and found it funny to have done so. That doesn’t mean that they weren’t unprofessional – it means that they had no pretensions about _being_ professional, in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/92 "2016-07-20T01:46:41Z")
Kenobi, from what you’re saying, they had not had enough exposure or practice to be recognized as a Big Name Band. Which gives them that much less latitude vis-a-vis Sullivan in any difference of opinion. I would say this contrasts with The Beatles, who were more “seasoned” when they appeared on the Sullivan Show. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/93 "2016-07-20T05:25:30Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Kenobi, from what you’re saying, they had not had enough exposure or practice to be recognized as a Big Name Band. > Which gives them that much less latitude vis-a-vis Sullivan in any difference of opinion. Yes, it does seem like their appearance on the Sullivan show was one of the Doors’ big breaks. OTOH, the point I think you’re missing is that this was a bunch of guys in their early 20s, at the height of the counterculture movement, who really didn’t give a f\*\*\* what some guy who was older than their fathers had to say about their music, and saw absolutely no problem with ignoring the promise that had been extracted from them to sanitize their lyrics. Did that make them “unprofessional”? Oh, very probably. They didn’t **care** , and as has been discussed, ignoring Sullivan’s demand probably did more for them than obeying it would have. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/94 "2016-07-20T05:44:20Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Yes, it does seem like their appearance on the Sullivan show was one of the Doors’ big breaks. > > OTOH, the point I think you’re missing is that this was a bunch of guys in their early 20s, at the height of the counterculture movement, who really didn’t give a f\*\*\* what some guy who was older than their fathers had to say about their music, and saw absolutely no problem with ignoring the promise that had been extracted from them to sanitize their lyrics. > > Did that make them “unprofessional”? Oh, very probably. They didn’t **care** , and as has been discussed, ignoring Sullivan’s demand probably did more for them than obeying it would have. That’s like riding a pogo stick through a minefield and hoping you will always land on un-mined ground. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/95 "2016-07-20T06:03:16Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > That’s like riding a pogo stick through a minefield and hoping you will always land on un-mined ground. Yup. They were young, they were inexperienced, and they had no respect for Sullivan, nor his generation. What’s the point that you’re trying to make? None of that endeared them to Sullivan, but none of it hampered their popularity with their fans (and, frankly, it probably _helped_ with their fans). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/96 "2016-07-20T14:19:24Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I hope I’m not belaboring the point, but… > > - At that time, Jim Morrison was all of 23 years old, and the band was only a few months removed from playing gigs at high schools. Sorry, but this time line is ridiculous. The Doors formed in 1965. They recorded their first album in 1966. They played at clubs all over Los Angeles and made numerous appearances on television before the Sullivan show. Moreover, “Light My Fire” had been the #1 song in America for three weeks in July. The album went to #2. The Doors were famous and experienced, one of the handful of top rock acts in the country, not a bunch of beginners. People wanted to hear them play their signature song as they knew it, and basically everyone in America had ample opportunity to know that the word “higher” was in in it. Morrison was a cocky egomaniac and congenitally anti-authoritarian, true. But he had good reason to be. He was a superstar and a fantastic performer who knew his audience and how to appeal to them far better than Sullivan’s producer. I have no idea what person you’re thinking of, but it’s not Jim Morrison. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/97 "2016-07-20T14:33:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Sorry, but this time line is ridiculous. The Doors formed in 1965. They recorded their first album in 1966. They played at clubs all over Los Angeles and made numerous appearances on television before the Sullivan show. > > Moreover, “Light My Fire” had been the #1 song in America for three weeks in July. The album went to #2. The Doors were famous and experienced, one of the handful of top rock acts in the country, not a bunch of beginners. People wanted to hear them play their signature song as they knew it, and basically everyone in America had ample opportunity to know that the word “higher” was in in it. > > Morrison was a cocky egomaniac and congenitally anti-authoritarian, true. But he had good reason to be. He was a superstar and a fantastic performer who knew his audience and how to appeal to them far better than Sullivan’s producer. I have no idea what person you’re thinking of, but it’s not Jim Morrison. I don’t care. Breach of agreement is breach of agreement, no matter how big and important you think you are; and this arrogant act guaranteed that Sullivan would never have The Doors back on his show. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/98 "2016-07-20T14:34:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Moreover, “Light My Fire” had been the #1 song in America for three weeks in July. The album went to #2. The Doors were famous and experienced, one of the handful of top rock acts in the country, not a bunch of beginners. People wanted to hear them play their signature song as they knew it, and basically everyone in America had ample opportunity to know that the word “higher” was in in it. Exactly. The Doors had no need for a “big break.” They’d already had it, and were riding the crest of their success. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/99 "2016-07-20T14:42:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Sorry, but this time line is ridiculous. The Doors formed in 1965. They recorded their first album in 1966. They played at clubs all over Los Angeles and made numerous appearances on television before the Sullivan show. > > Moreover, “Light My Fire” had been the #1 song in America for three weeks in July. The album went to #2. The Doors were famous and experienced, one of the handful of top rock acts in the country, not a bunch of beginners. People wanted to hear them play their signature song as they knew it, and basically everyone in America had ample opportunity to know that the word “higher” was in in it. > > Morrison was a cocky egomaniac and congenitally anti-authoritarian, true. But he had good reason to be. He was a superstar and a fantastic performer who knew his audience and how to appeal to them far better than Sullivan’s producer. I have no idea what person you’re thinking of, but it’s not Jim Morrison. Apparently, I stand corrected. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628/100 "2016-07-20T15:04:48Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I don’t care. Breach of agreement is breach of agreement, no matter how big and important you think you are; and this arrogant act guaranteed that Sullivan would never have The Doors back on his show. Really? You don’t care? Wow, maybe you should have said something before this. Sullivan did what was right for Sullivan and Morrison did what was right for Morrison. They both got what they wanted. And in the end they both got what they deserved. You’re acting jerkishly, too, just like Sullivan and Morrison. I don’t know why. But I suspect in the end you’ll get what you deserve for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doors-on-ed-sullivan/759628.md?page=6)