# The Douchebag of Liberty has passed on. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859 "2009-08-18T16:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/1 "2009-08-18T16:47:52Z")
[I’d feel a bit more sorry if I didn’t think he was a traitor to his country.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32461900/ns/politics-more_politics/) Remember, never speak ill of the dead or they may come back to out your spying ass. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/2 "2009-08-18T16:57:22Z")
Just curious: Daniel Ellsberg: traitor or hero? ---
**Author:** ![Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gam_Zeh_Yaavor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/3 "2009-08-18T16:58:58Z")
“Good night, sweet prince, and flights of angels sing thee to thy eternal seething cauldron of molten feces.” ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/4 "2009-08-18T16:59:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just curious: Daniel Ellsberg: traitor or hero? Both? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/5 "2009-08-18T17:03:33Z")
> [@](#): > > …thy eternal seething cauldron of molten feces Won’t somebody please think of the cauldron!?!! To answer **Bricker** : Nice one, attempted hi-jack on the second post, you don’t waste much time! How does a man honor his country by aiding it in a dishonorable cause? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/6 "2009-08-18T17:04:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just curious: Daniel Ellsberg: traitor or hero? Did Daniel Ellsberg die today? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/7 "2009-08-18T17:05:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just curious: Daniel Ellsberg: traitor or hero? You’re comparing the Pentagon Papers to the petty, partisan, purely vindictive outing of a CIA agent? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/8 "2009-08-18T17:06:02Z")
Yet another chapter in\*\* Bricker\*\*'s autobiography, “Using False Equivalence”. :rolleyes: One might think you’d know by now that you can’t get away with that shit here, even for a moment, but you keep on trying, don’t you? Novak leaked a CIA agent’s name, and endangered her life, to try to \*support \*a lie on which a war was based. Ellsberg leaked classified paperwork, at a personal risk to no one, to _reveal_ a lie on which a war was based. But of course you knew that, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/9 "2009-08-18T17:29:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Novak leaked a CIA agent’s name, and endangered her life, to try to \*support \*a lie on which a war was based. Not only her life, but the lives of everyone connected with her espionage network. Which network had as its mission (at least in part) getting information on WMD. And which was rendered useless upon her outing. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/10 "2009-08-18T17:32:21Z")
Well, the difference would be thatthe leak of the Pentagon Papers probably hurt the US more. ---
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/11 "2009-08-18T17:35:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, the difference would be thatthe leak of the Pentagon Papers probably hurt the US more. Why do you believe this to be the case? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/12 "2009-08-18T17:36:27Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, the difference would be thatthe leak of the Pentagon Papers probably hurt the US more. How so? It embarrassed the hell out of Nixon, but he wasn’t “the US”. It helped bring about the end of a horribly wasteful and useless war; how did that hurt the US? How was the leak not a patriotic act? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/13 "2009-08-18T17:41:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Won’t somebody please think of the cauldron!?!! > > To answer **Bricker** : Nice one, attempted hi-jack on the second post, you don’t waste much time! > > How does a man honor his country by aiding it in a dishonorable cause? > [@Biggirl](#): > > Did Daniel Ellsberg die today? Just curious. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’re comparing the Pentagon Papers to the petty, partisan, purely vindictive outing of a CIA agent? It’s not a hijack. I’m attempting to discover how she figures Novak is a traitor to his country. If Ellsberg is ALSO a traitor, then I have little to challenge on her Novak pronouncement. If Novak is a traitor but Ellsberg isn’t, then it’s clear she’s using a subjective definition of “traitor” and I’m willing to bet her definition involves working against politics she believes in. That’s fair game to challenge her on, but as I say, it may not be the case. So I asked the question. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/14 "2009-08-18T17:41:34Z")
**Bricker** - I don’t like to bait you. I have too much respect for you, and besides, you’d probably pwn my ass. So I’ll ask straightforwardly - do you view Bob Novak as a traitor or hero, or what? Do you view Daniel Ellsberg as a traitor or hero, or what? Which of the two men do you think deserves more praise, or criticism? ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/15 "2009-08-18T17:43:30Z")
I guess you could say Robert Novak has [stormed off the set](http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200508040004) of life. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/16 "2009-08-18T17:44:07Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, the difference would be thatthe leak of the Pentagon Papers probably hurt the US more. But Robert Novak was _funnier:_ > [@](#): > > Partisan Democrats and many members of the media consider John McCain’s choice of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate a terrible mistake. But McCain need not worry about their criticism. His unexpected selection satisfied the people he needed to please. Republican conservatives assembling in St. Paul for the party’s national convention were “ecstatic” over the choice. > > Nor did the announcement Monday that Palin’s 17-year-old unmarried daughter was pregnant – but would raise the child and marry the father – perceptibly diminish the enthusiasm for her in St. Paul by Republicans, who regarded the news as irrelevant to the vice presidential selection. > > That is not only because Palin appears to be an outstanding candidate but also because McCain in his first test as party leader came through with a unique and responsible decision. [McCain Comes Through - September 03, 2008](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/mccain_comes_through.html) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/17 "2009-08-18T17:44:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Novak is a traitor but Ellsberg isn’t, then it’s clear she’s using a subjective definition of “traitor” What part of “lie” or “war” is fucking subjective? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/18 "2009-08-18T17:45:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s not a hijack. I’m attempting to discover how she figures Novak is a traitor to his country. If Ellsberg is ALSO a traitor, then I have little to challenge on her Novak pronouncement. If Novak is a traitor but Ellsberg isn’t, then it’s clear she’s using a subjective definition of “traitor” and I’m willing to bet her definition involves working against politics she believes in. That’s fair game to challenge her on, but as I say, it may not be the case. > > So I asked the question. You asked a stupid question. What was gained exactly by Novak’s actions? What horrible doings were uncovered? What aside from a partisan attack was it exactly? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/19 "2009-08-18T17:47:23Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You asked a stupid question. No, it wasn’t stupid at all. It was a carefully crafted _baiting_ question. One of his specialties. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/20 "2009-08-18T17:51:18Z")
> [@Phatlewt](#): > > Why do you believe this to be the case? It hurt the reputation of the US abroad by revealing our actions in Laos and Cambodia. It also helped to turn public opinion against the war, which led to the withdrawal from South Vietnam and its surrender to the Communists. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859.md?page=2)