# The Douchebag of Liberty has passed on. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859 "2009-08-18T16:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/221 "2009-08-20T03:22:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My “demonstrated political leanings?” > > Wow. > > I can’t think of too many people on this board that have expressed as even-handed political opinions as I have. I can point to many times I’ve defended Democrats – how many times can you say you’ve defended Republicans? Oh, now, now, **Bricker** , you are obviously a Republican. I’ve defended Republicans here - mostly you, I’m afraid, though not always - but that certainly does not make my demonstrated political leanings Republican. Your defenses are far more oriented to “It’s a fair cop” than to anything else; you’re a defender of logic and a good argument, not a defender of the base of the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/222 "2009-08-20T03:24:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > No. Fuck you. It was a total asshole way to ask a question. I’m not playing a game, either. Seriously. Fuck off. > > You preface a question like that and expect consideration? A third time. Fuck you, you condescending prick. In other words, you have no answer to that question. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/223 "2009-08-20T03:24:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s an absolute article of certainty? The evidence admits to no other conceivable explanation? If this is your standard of guilt, why aren’t you applying it to the OP of this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/224 "2009-08-20T03:26:48Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If this is your standard of guilt, why aren’t you applying it to the OP of this thread? I have. I acknowledged way upthread that it was a reaosnable view that Novak was a traitor. Did you read the thread, by chance? I also acknolwedge that there was a reasonable view that could see Ellsberg as not being a traitor, but Novak being one. What other concessions would you have me make? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/225 "2009-08-20T03:28:23Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > In other words, you have no answer to that question. > > Thanks! He’s trolling Frank. And baiting you. It’s what he does. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/226 "2009-08-20T03:29:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have. I acknowledged way upthread that it was a reaosnable view that Novak was a traitor. > > Did you read the thread, by chance? > > I also acknolwedge that there was a reasonable view that could see Ellsberg as not being a traitor, but Novak being one. > > What other concessions would you have me make? That there is no reason to denounce her as a hypocrite for not feeling like talking to you. There are other explanations. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/227 "2009-08-20T03:29:38Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Oh, now, now, **Bricker** , you are obviously a Republican. I’ve defended Republicans here - mostly you, I’m afraid, though not always - but that certainly does not make my demonstrated political leanings Republican. > > Your defenses are far more oriented to “It’s a fair cop” than to anything else; you’re a defender of logic and a good argument, not a defender of the base of the argument. Right. If Poster A has consistently criticized Republicans and defended Democrats, and Poster B has defended whichever side had the most complelling argument and logic, then which poster is more fairly characterized as likely to adopt a position based on political leanings? And I thnk you’re reasonably even-handed, yourself, come to that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/228 "2009-08-20T03:30:45Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > That there is no reason to denounce her as a hypocrite for not feeling like talking to you. There are other explanations. Sure there are. I am merely saying I have a likely one - a rebuttable presumption. All it needs is to be rebutted. You give me your honest view about **Biggirl**. How likely do you think it is that her conclusion about who is and isn’t a traitor between Novak and Ellsberg arises from the political leanings of each? Honestly - no bullshit. What do you think the truth is? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/229 "2009-08-20T03:33:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure there are. I am merely saying I have a likely one - a rebuttable presumption. All it needs is to be rebutted. I have a likely one too. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/230 "2009-08-20T03:34:55Z")
Robert Novak was a loathsome, purposely traitorous, prick but, because I don’t wish to be one of the liberals who dance on the graves of such crapitrons, I will merely hope he had time to make peace with his Maker. He’d be hard=pressed to make peace with me, but brain cancer can contribute to his assholish behavior. Did that strike the right balance between “respectful, though I loathe him” and “if I believed in a Hell, he’d be going there?” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/231 "2009-08-20T03:36:10Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Robert Novak was a loathsome, purposely traitorous, prick but, because I don’t wish to be one of the liberals who dance on the graves of such crapitrons, I will merely hope he had time to make peace with his Maker. He’d be hard=pressed to make peace with me, but brain cancer can contribute to his assholish behavior. > > Did that strike the right balance between “respectful, though I loathe him” and “if I believed in a Hell, he’d be going there?” Yes, calling someone a prick is one of Emily Post’s Top Ten Signs You’re Being Respectful. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/232 "2009-08-20T05:33:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **kaylasdad99** > > See, in the absence of an explanation for that, a lot of people seem to be looking at your demonstrated political leanings and making an easy-to-justify connection to the likelihood that your Republican-Spidey-sense started tingling, prompting you to spring into action. > > My “demonstrated political leanings?” > > Wow. Sorry. I really didn’t think my wording was offensive, but your apparent umbrage forces me to recognize it as inartful. Please allow me to withdraw the remark, and resubmit it, substituting the word “stated” for “demonstrated.” > [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t think of too many people on this board that have expressed as even-handed political opinions as I have. I can point to many times I’ve defended Democrats – how many times can you say you’ve defended Republicans? I can’t actually put a number on it, but I seem to recall that I’ve expressed support for YOU a time or two. And **Scylla** (although I’m not sure he’s actually a registered Republican, so it might not count). Anyway, I think quite highly of both of you, and you both hold high positions in the **kaylasdad99** gallery of Estimable Dopers. And, lest you suppose that I’m playing games here, I won’t claim a specific instance of supporting a public figure of the Republican persuasion, although I won’t rule out the possibility that it’s happened. Possibly I did it and suppressed the memory of the trauma. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/233 "2009-08-20T06:50:26Z")
In a way I think I will miss Robert Novak. He was almost always up to no good. But at least it wasn’t ding-bat conservatism like we have now from O’Reilly, Limbaugh, and Beck. Novak was smart but just a _bad boy_. > [@](#): > > **Bricker** : I can’t think of too many people on this board that have expressed as even-handed political opinions as I have. I can point to many times I’ve defended Democrats – how many times can you say you’ve defended Republicans? Someone with even-handed political opinions should be able to say, “I can point to many times I’ve defended Democrats and Republicans alike.” There is nothing even-handed in using Robert Novak and Daniel Ellsberg for comparison/contrast. > [@](#): > > **Mr. Moto** : Polite company there wouldn’t tolerate someone who had sold out his countrymen. You really would have made a good Tory, **Moto**. Traitors to England included Washington, Franklin, Adams, and Franklin for starters. 'Twas Nixon sold out his countrymen and Ellsberg and _The New York Times_ who let their countrymen know the truth. So is Saigon in ruins under a different name – Ho Chi Minh City? And how did that Domino Theory work out? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/234 "2009-08-20T10:28:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My “demonstrated political leanings?” > > Wow. > > I can’t think of too many people on this board that have expressed as even-handed political opinions as I have. I can point to many times I’ve defended Democrats – how many times can you say you’ve defended Republicans? OMFG! as the kids say. I suppose that Fox News also regards itself as fair and balanced. Please check to make sure that your self-awareness switch is on and that you are plugged in before calling for additional assistance. Seriously, it may be unfair, but what I really remember you for are threads like this one here. “Bricker? Oh he’s that guy who does things like distract from a pitting of the Douchebag of Liberty with some obtuse comparison to someone completely different.” A paragon of ideological impartiality, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/235 "2009-08-20T12:36:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That doesn’t quite ring true. Perhaps you can make it ring true by responding to my question from before: Why didn’t you simply ask her what she meant by “traitor”? Because it’s usually pretty clear what is meant by “traitor”. It means “Republican”. All this blather about outing Plame is just window dressing. The Ellsberg example (and stuff like Sandy Berger) show this clearly. If Novak were a liberal Democrat, you would care nothing and less than nothing about it. It’s not exactly RO; merely hypocrisy. You don’t observe what Republicans do and then hate them. You hate them first and then look around for reasons. You claim you don’t, but you are lying - probably to yourself as well. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/236 "2009-08-20T13:26:10Z")
Well, that certainly settles that! Anybody have any questions? ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/237 "2009-08-20T14:43:30Z")
**Shodan** , me thinks you are projecting too much. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/238 "2009-08-20T15:19:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Sorry. I really didn’t think my wording was offensive, but your apparent umbrage forces me to recognize it as inartful. > > Please allow me to withdraw the remark, and resubmit it, substituting the word “stated” for "demonstrated."I can’t actually put a number on it, but I seem to recall that I’ve expressed support for YOU a time or two. Thanks – I, in turn, will apologize for the edginess of my reply; I see now that you didn’t intend what i thought you did. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/239 "2009-08-20T15:30:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The Ellsberg example (and stuff like Sandy Berger) show this clearly… Actually, I think Sandy Berger fits into a different category. Berger didn’t publicize any classified material. The best interpretation of his actions was that he wanted to have copies of the documents he’d be asked about so he could put the best possible spin on the Clinton Administration’s actions; the worst is that he destroyed evidence of some embarrassing mistake or error. Either way, it’s a jump to place him in the same group as someone who deliberately disclosed classified information to the public. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/240 "2009-08-20T15:47:11Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Seriously, it may be unfair, but what I really remember you for are threads like this one here. I’m partial to his thread complaining about the liberals’ “War on Christmas”, myself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859.md?page=13)