# The Douchebag of Liberty has passed on. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859 "2009-08-18T16:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/101 "2009-08-18T23:43:04Z")
I think Bricker has conducted himself admirably in this thread. No, seriously. It’s a fair comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/102 "2009-08-18T23:43:09Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Thing is this isn’t necessarily about politics, really, unless you’re speaking only for yourself (and let’s face it, you weren’t). Nothing written here will likely impact the lives of anyone truly mourning Novack’s passing, so your self-righteousness is wasted. Novak was a politcal figure who, in additon to being divisive, committed a pretty serious offense in the minds of some. That a discussion of this (probably his most infamous and lasting act) would greet his death and that in the cou8rse of that discussion some invective appear should come as no surprise, but we’ll promise to keep quiet at the wake. Well, I suppose that’s something. My abhorrence isn’t based on the possibility that you might hurt somebody’s feelings, though. You see, I sincerely believe that the bad things you indulge yourself in poison you, and piece by piece kill off the better parts of your soul. By the time that you are so far gone that you gloat over the painful death of **any** human being, especially for something as trivial as this, your soul is so dead that you can no longer remember, much less comprehend what it was like to be a good and caring human being. That’s how I think of some of you. I wonder if you are actually alive. If you were the empty dead spirits of hateful fanatics forced to haunt the internet and spew your hate as parodies of your formally living selves, it would explain your one-dimensional bitterness better than to consider you were an active part of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/103 "2009-08-18T23:50:19Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Well, I suppose that’s something. My abhorrence isn’t based on the possibility that you might hurt somebody’s feelings, though. > > You see, I sincerely believe that the bad things you indulge yourself in poison you, and piece by piece kill off the better parts of your soul. > > By the time that you are so far gone that you gloat over the painful death of **any** human being, especially for something as trivial as this, your soul is so dead that you can no longer remember, much less comprehend what it was like to be a good and caring human being. > > That’s how I think of some of you. I wonder if you are actually alive. If you were the empty dead spirits of hateful fanatics forced to haunt the internet and spew your hate as parodies of your formally living selves, it would explain your one-dimensional bitterness better than to consider you were an active part of humanity. You and I both know that most if not all of the gloating here is a hystrionic display fueled by internet anonymnity - kind of like mourning the death of a living person’s soul because he posts insensitive words on a message board. Seriously, don’t you regret, just a little bit, sounding so corny? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/104 "2009-08-18T23:54:18Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > You and I both know that most if not all of the gloating here is a hystrionic display fueled by internet anonymnity I do. I don’t think it’s harmless though. > [@](#): > > - kind of like mourning the death of a living person’s soul because he posts insensitive words on a message board. Seriously, don’t you regret, just a little bit, sounding so corny? I cried at the end of The Champ, so no. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/105 "2009-08-18T23:59:28Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I do. I don’t think it’s harmless though. > > I cried at the end of The Champ, so no. Well, I’m glad your’e out saving souls from internet-evil-invective-poisoning (which has been known to lead to soul-death). By the way, in this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528602), moments ago, you called someone stupid. No real reason for you to do that and it was (in the oh so smallest of ways) a _mean_ thing to do. Any soul necropsy? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/106 "2009-08-19T00:07:08Z")
“…and those were the days when St. **Scylla** went amongst the people, and cured the lepers. And if they couldn’t pay, he gave it back to them…” ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/107 "2009-08-19T00:08:00Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I think Bricker has conducted himself admirably in this thread. No, seriously. It’s a fair comparison. . . . but wholly unnecessary as it seems **Bricker** has no real beef with Novak being on that traitor list so long as Elsberg is too. Seems it was thrown out there to test the internal consitency of the OP’s traitor-meter. If it were up to **Bricker** and **Scylla** we’d all have healthy souls with no capicity for nuance - the church would be so happy. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/108 "2009-08-19T00:15:03Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Well, I’m glad your’e out saving souls from internet-evil-invective-poisoning (which has been known to lead to soul-death). I’m kind of like the Ancient Mariner in this fashion > [@](#): > > By the way, in this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528602), moments ago, you called someone stupid. No real reason for you to do that and it was (in the oh so smallest of ways) a _mean_ thing to do. Any soul necropsy? A little bit. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/109 "2009-08-19T00:26:40Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > A little bit. yeah, mine too ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/110 "2009-08-19T00:28:46Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You see, I sincerely believe that the bad things you indulge yourself in poison you, and piece by piece kill off the better parts of your soul. > > By the time that you are so far gone that you gloat over the painful death of **any** human being, especially for something as trivial as this, your soul is so dead that you can no longer remember, much less comprehend what it was like to be a good and caring human being. > > That’s how I think of some of you. I wonder if you are actually alive. If you were the empty dead spirits of hateful fanatics forced to haunt the internet and spew your hate as parodies of your formally living selves, it would explain your one-dimensional bitterness better than to consider you were an active part of humanity. I’m not gloating, and honestly, if he lived to be 100, it would have no real effect on me. I just feel no respect for him, and being “slightly” familiar with security regs and all, I just will not post any eulogies or talk about him being a great man. So, the best I can do is shrug and say “better him than me”. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/111 "2009-08-19T00:36:30Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > yeah, mine too If you’re ever down in Southern PA. email me, and I’ll by you a beer. I’ve learned that soaking your soul in beer helps hide those tears and stains and blemishes. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/112 "2009-08-19T00:36:41Z")
Turns out Novak was 78. Huh, I thought he was much younger. Every time I saw him on TV he seemed pretty vigorous. I would have pegged him at late 50s/early 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/113 "2009-08-19T00:38:59Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m not gloating, and honestly, if he lived to be 100, it would have no real effect on me. I just feel no respect for him, and being “slightly” familiar with security regs and all, I just will not post any eulogies or talk about him being a great man. So, the best I can do is shrug and say “better him than me”. I have no problem with that and apologize if I painted with too wide a brush. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/114 "2009-08-19T00:43:19Z")
Not so much painting with too broad a brush, but more like spraying with a firehose attached to the sewage pump. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/115 "2009-08-19T00:44:48Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I have no problem with that and apologize if I painted with too wide a brush. No problem there, I understood where you were going with it, and it’s cool with me. My views on leaking info for personal, political, or financial gain were (and still are) heavily influenced by my experiences in the Army Security Agency. They take a hard line on leaks and I adopted the same outlook. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/116 "2009-08-19T00:53:31Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > [I’d feel a bit more sorry if I didn’t think he was a traitor to his country.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32461900/ns/politics-more_politics/) \*\* Who? \*\* You couldn’t be bother to even cut and paste a fucking **NAME**?!? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/117 "2009-08-19T01:20:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ellsberg: traitor, with an explanation. That is, he illegally disclosed classified document, with a subjective belief he was acting in the best interests of the country. The problem is that people with security clearances don’t get to make that determination independently; they are generally obligated to keep secret what they agreed to keep secret. > > Novak: traitor, with an explanation. That is, he illegally disclosed classified document, with a subjective belief he was acting in the best interests of the country. The problem is that people with security clearances don’t get to make that determination independently; they are generally obligated to keep secret what they agreed to keep secret. And in his case, it may be that his disclosure was not the first – that is, he “disclosed” something that was already public. > > I don’t think either of them deserve harsh censure, but neither would I call either of them heroes. I don’t get this comparison. You’re too smart to believe it yourself, of course, and we all know Novak was too smart a guy to have believed it. Novak had no illusions – he knew at the time he was acting in what he believed to be the best interests of the _party,_ not the _country._ So since you and I both know that Novak didn’t really think he was acting in the best interests of the country, and you’re too smart a guy yourself to think it, I conclude that you just think the SDMB readers are dumb enough to believe it? Otherwise why even post it? . ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/118 "2009-08-19T01:46:32Z")
> [@bup](#): > > **Bricker** ’s not disingenuous. His brain really works like that. > > It’s frustrating if you’re a normal person, who believes that in the pit, you put your own opinion/belief in a post by default. **Bricker** doesn’t. He was born to be a lawyer. His brain really wants to pick apart any argument that supports somebody else’s belief, and searches for precedents that are analogous in order to instruct his questioning. > > It doesn’t _occur_ to him to post his own position, or perhaps to even _have_ his own position, unless he is explicitly asked for it. This, and that he probably grew up watching lawyer shows on TV and, even if they don’t offer classes in Gotchas in law school (prove they don’t :D), Perry Mason taught him the ropes. ETA: Grew up in a house full of lawyers. Ended many a discussion with, “You motherfucker,” a sign that I’d been gotcha’ed. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/119 "2009-08-19T02:09:24Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Nothing written here will likely impact the lives of anyone truly mourning Novack’s passing, so your self-righteousness is wasted. Someone truly mourning him probably would be smarter than to open this thread, and I hope smarter than to open the comments of any \*WaPo \*article on his death. But you never know. It’s a smaller world than ever. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859/120 "2009-08-19T02:32:56Z")
Why is anyone wondering if I think Novak is a traitor? I think I was quite clear in my OP what I think on that score. Novak has fuck all to do with someone who I never mentioned and didn’t give a thought to and whose only reason for existing in this thread is to take the heat off of a man who outed a government agent as payback to a political enemy. I do not feel the need to play **Bricker’s** moral equivalency game. You all are welcome to it, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-douchebag-of-liberty-has-passed-on/506859.md?page=7)