# The doxing of Violentacrez: yup or nope? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926 "2012-10-16T20:11:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/101 "2012-10-17T20:46:49Z")
This is a stupid argument. He violated his own anonymity. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/102 "2012-10-17T20:54:12Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Last I checked, being creepy is not illegal nor grounds for termination (if he was competent at his job). Being outed is one thing – you invite it when you troll others – but losing your job? Dude didn’t deserve that. Yes he did. If I hire someone it’s not just because they can complete a certain task. I’m hiring someone that will represent my business and I’m hiring someone I think is a good person and can trust. If that person turns out to be the skidmark on society’s underpants, well then, I’ll be happy to find someone that can do the job just as well, who I can trust around my customers, and who I don’t find to be morally reprehensible. I’d also add that where there is smoke there is likely fire. I hope the local police have this pos under a magnifying glass because it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he has more nefarious things going on. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/103 "2012-10-17T20:57:30Z")
[Gawker](http://gawker.com/5952563/why-the-violentacrez-story-isnt-about-free-speech) posted another write up that I think makes some interesting points: > [@](#): > > If someone bleats to you about any of this being a “free speech” issue, you can safely mark them as either ignorant or pernicious - probably ignorant, as the understanding of what “free speech” means in a constitutional sense here in the US is, shall we say, highly constrained in the general population. Additionally and independently, the sort of person who who says “free speech” when they mean “I like doing creepy things to other people without their consent and you can’t stop me so fuck you ha ha ha ha” is pretty clearly a mouth-breathing asshole who in the larger moral landscape deserves a bat across the bridge of the nose and probably knows it. Which is why - unsurprisingly - so many of them choose to be anonymous and/or use pseudonyms on Reddit while they get their creep on. > > . . . > > I find it difficult to believe that Redditors don’t understand that anonymity online is merely a facade; indeed it’s probably one of the reasons that revealing the identity of pseudonymous Redditors is looked on as such a huge betrayal. That said, anyone who goes to Reddit and truly believes that a site-standard ethos of “don’t reveal our members’ identities” fully protects them from being revealed or allows them to revel in obnoxious and/or creepy behavior without fear of discovery, they’re kind of dumb. I won’t say that they deserve what they get - maybe they do, maybe they don’t - but I will say they shouldn’t be terribly surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/104 "2012-10-17T21:01:30Z")
I have never visited Reddit, but for some reason this story fascinates me. The guy who was identified gave his name and information to others in the Reddit community. It was only a matter of time before his identity became public knowledge. However, the internet’s biggest troll was apparently outed by…a [troll](http://www.urlesque.com/2011/03/10/gawker-adrian-chen-cancer-lucidending/). The internet is so interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/105 "2012-10-17T21:03:42Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Why the hell not? In fact, one of the internet’s greatest attributes is the its ability to act as a forum for the free exchange of ideas on their own merits, separate from the identities and personalities of the people exchanging them. And in fact, among people who care deeply about the internet and are involved in activism related to its future, issues of privacy, anonymity, and security are paramount concerns. There is no anonymity on the internet because … _reality_. In reality, it’s just not that hard to identify people online. Most people don’t even take any effort to hide themselves. This includes people like Violentacrez, who attended Reddit meetups and introduced himself to people as VA and the morons at [Predittors](http://predditors.tumblr.com/) who use the same nick for all their activities. It’s like a little kid at Halloween thinking he’s invisible because he’s wearing his ghost costume. Unless you’re a five year old, the rest of the universe is not obligated to go along with your illusions. Also: the internet’s greatest attribute is that it allows people to communicate, period, not that it allows us to hide behind shadows. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/106 "2012-10-17T21:09:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s why /r/creepshots only consisted of upskirt shots of _cartoon_ characters, right? I’m not going to defend VA as he’s obviously a massive troll and a pretty terrible human being. With that said, I do have to point out one thing about that r/creepshots subreddit. Before it was taken down, I did visit this forum to see what all the fuss was about (drama over this subreddit started gathering steam a few weeks ago, before it was banned). The photos posted on that forum were of unsuspecting girls’ legs, asses, and tits - all clothed (except for the legs, I suppose). The photos posted were legal as you have no right to your image in a public place. Does it make you creepy? Sure, of course it does. Does it make you a criminal? No. It was also made clear that “upskirt” and “downblouse” type photos were not allowed on that subreddit - or anywhere on Reddit for that matter. Those types of photos are illegal in most (if not all) states and therefore were not allowed on Reddit. In fact, part of what VA did as a mod in Creepshots was to delete those types of photos when they were posted. Now, again, I’m not defending this douche. He deserves shitty things to happen to him. I just want to point out that there are plenty of reasons to hate this guy without making stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/107 "2012-10-17T21:10:07Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > It’s like a little kid at Halloween thinking he’s invisible because he’s wearing his ghost costume. Unless you’re a five year old, the rest of the universe is not obligated to go along with your illusions. I think this speaks to the reality of the situation. If you really want to be anonymous, you have to work at it, because other people are under no particular obligation to grant you anonymity. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/108 "2012-10-17T21:10:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’ve got news for you - the Internet _is_ Real Life. This is kind of the problem. I remember how ten years ago the internet wasn’t real life. You didn’t every day have daily stories about this or that “sicko troll” in the tabloids. You didn’t have constant attempts to regulate content at the national level. Every twelve year old nerd had a copy of the anarchist’s cookbook without fearing arrest like they would now. It was a much better time, that. Now we have to put up with the mediocrity of conformity. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/109 "2012-10-17T21:18:53Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > This is kind of the problem. I remember how ten years ago the internet wasn’t real life. You didn’t every day have daily stories about this or that “sicko troll” in the tabloids. You didn’t have constant attempts to regulate content at the national level. Every twelve year old nerd had a copy of the anarchist’s cookbook without fearing arrest like they would now. > > It was a much better time, that. Now we have to put up with the mediocrity of conformity. ☹ No, you can still dye your hair, get a tattoo, and rally against the man, _Man_. You just can’t create an anonymous online sociopath to bully, humiliate, exploit, and drive people to suicide without repercussion. ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/110 "2012-10-17T21:21:10Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > but if the act itself is not illegal, and there is no way to identify the people in the pictures, then he still deserves protection. So you think the Reddit troll is free and clear and deserves protection because he’s done nothing illegal, but when it comes to the Gawker writer’s freedom to out the troll and the protection of his right to do so: > [@jackdavinci](#): > > Legally, sure. Morally, no. So only the Gawker writer should be held to moral standards, but VA? Nothing illegal, he’s good to go! ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/111 "2012-10-17T21:33:22Z")
I’ll just reiterate what seems to be becoming my mantra, here: _nothing_ on the internet is private. If you want it private, don’t put it on the internet. If you want it anonymous, don’t connect it to personally identifiable information. If you think you’re going to get away unnoticed when behaving like a dick in a venue that is essentially a public square, well I’m not particularly sympathetic to you when you discover that actions have consequences. > [@Bosstone](#): > > Reddit’s desire to censor information about this guy to protect him is weaksauce. If you’re going to allow entirely free expression, which I laud in most cases, it cuts all ways. How can it even protect him, or anyone? How does it maintain anyone’s privacy to ban links to external websites? The people who work at Gawker can still _read_ Reddit – which was how the guy was found out – and they’re certainly still free to write about Reddit, too. It’s not stopping anyone from digging up Redditors’ poorly concealed skeletons. So there’s the big lie. They’ll tell you it’s about protecting privacy, even though it doesn’t, so they can “get away” with throwing a tantrum like a 2-year-old. It’s sad that even some of the less-creepy sub-Reddits are jumping on this bandwagon. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/112 "2012-10-17T21:51:37Z")
I’ve thought about this some more and I feel even less sorry for him than I did initially. I liked what Adrian Chen said on NPR. To paraphrase, he said that as a general principle he values internet anonymity, but he views that anonymity as a way to prevent vulnerable people from being exploited. In VA’s case, he was the powerful person exploiting vulnerable people, therefore he sees no reason to justify his anonymity. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/113 "2012-10-17T21:57:33Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because the very idea of Freedom of Speech doesn’t have much teeth, unless we are willing to honor the right to unpopular, but not illegal (fraud, libel, etc.) speech. I do not like Violentacrez’s speech (typing, text, etc.), but I respect his right to make it. Who took away his right to make it? He can still do whatever he wants on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/114 "2012-10-17T22:14:03Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > He’s old enough to learn that actions have consequences. I think that’s overly simplistic. Would you say that of someone who, instead of creepshots and incest, was known on the internet for gay porn? I’m with **brickbacon** on this. How many people have to find what you do reprehensible before it becomes good to expose your pseudonym? Obviously I do find Brutsch’s behavior reprehensible, but … well, gay porn. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/115 "2012-10-17T22:29:03Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Who took away his right to make it? He can still do whatever he wants on the internet. That’s what I’m wondering. His free speech wasn’t curtailed. He just had to face consequences because of it. He is still free to pursue his hobbies. And if he chooses to continue to piss people off, he chooses to suffer potential consequences for doing so. Maybe one of his Paypal backers will offer him a job. I can tell you that every job I’ve held since I left my teens would have let me go once the press started asking questions of such actions. They wouldn’t want to be guilty by association, and I wouldn’t blame them. But it is kind of bad when a payday loan company doesn’t want to be guilty by association. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/116 "2012-10-17T23:05:14Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > No, you can still dye your hair, get a tattoo, and rally against the man, _Man_. You just can’t create an anonymous online sociopath to bully, humiliate, exploit, and drive people to suicide without repercussion. It’s worth noting that no one was driven to suicide, or anything like it, while only nerds were online. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/117 "2012-10-17T23:10:03Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > This is a stupid argument. He violated his own anonymity. He wasn’t as careful about it as he should have been, but it’s clear he expected it to remain intact. It’s one thing not to keep something a secret. It’s quite another to call someone out on a major blog site, along with their name, picture, and location. > [@Merneith](#): > > There is no anonymity on the internet because … _reality_. There’s no anonymity in a gay club either, because _reality_, but there is still a reasonable expectation that people won’t follow you there and report on your identity and behavior there on a major blog site. > [@Merneith](#): > > Also: the internet’s greatest attribute is that it allows people to communicate, period, not that it allows us to hide behind shadows. Maybe, but anonymity it still high up on the list. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I think this speaks to the reality of the situation. If you really want to be anonymous, you have to work at it, because other people are under no particular obligation to grant you anonymity. There’s no obligation per se, but it’s the right thing to do, generally. > [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > So only the Gawker writer should be held to moral standards, but VA? Nothing illegal, he’s good to go! They are both wrong. What’s your point? It’s wrong to cheat at Monopoly, but it’s wronger to punch someone for doing do. > [@Kaio](#): > > I’ll just reiterate what seems to be becoming my mantra, here: _nothing_ on the internet is private. If you want it private, don’t put it on the internet. This creepily reminds me of the “well she shouldn’t have been wearing that short skirt in a bad neighborhood” sorts of comments. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/118 "2012-10-17T23:32:15Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > There’s no obligation per se, but it’s the right thing to do, generally. It’s also the right thing to NOT go online with the express purpose of pissing people off. You’re right. I have a reasonable expectation that people won’t be following me should I decide to go to a gay bar. But I may also reasonable expect that a mis-named Moral Majority might be watching the entrance to the gay bar, so it behooves me to be careful. Most likely, they wouldn’t know me, but there might be consequences if they did AND they had pull someplace else I frequent (especially a place that was also homophobic in nature, like when I was in the USAF back in the 80s). As I’ve not made a public spectacle of myself, in reality almost no one would care. VA made a public spectacle of himself. People cared. Proudly trolling, he was essentially saying “Look at me!”. Dorothy just pulled back the curtain. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/119 "2012-10-17T23:34:28Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > This creepily reminds me of the “well she shouldn’t have been wearing that short skirt in a bad neighborhood” sorts of comments. Was this troll raped for wearing a short skirt? It’s not illegal to rip off the hood of an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926/120 "2012-10-17T23:36:52Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > It’s worth noting that no one was driven to suicide, or anything like it, while only nerds were online. By the way I’m not saying that overall it’s a bad thing that now everyone is on the internet. No doubt it’s for the best (and internet culture is of course affecting the wider world and I think that if things go right then the next fifty years will be the most interesting fifty years ever). But it doesn’t change that the modern internet has lost something over the earlier internet. It was like the wild west in a way I suppose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-doxing-of-violentacrez-yup-or-nope/637926.md?page=7)