# The driver who killed a cyclist last night used to be the Attorney General of Ontario. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 2, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596 "2009-09-02T02:27:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/141 "2010-05-27T02:39:06Z")
Fair enough - the executive summary was not available at the time I expressed doubts about the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/142 "2010-05-27T03:34:33Z")
Poor RickJay. He gave his life in the fight against ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/143 "2010-05-27T03:41:22Z")
But his sacrifice was not in vain. Now the rest of us know to keep a rabid sqiurrel in a pocket just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/144 "2010-05-27T03:59:15Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The damages arose out of the intentional assault committed by the cyclist. That he managed to get killed in the process does not get him off the hook. That the damages were exacerbated by his dying does not get him off the hook. It comes down to the “but for” test applied to an intentional tort – but for the assault, would Bryant have suffered the damages? Duty of care does not come into it, so the question of whether or not there was a duty to not die does not come into it. If everything had happened the same way, except that when the cyclist fell of the car he only suffered minor injuries, Bryant would not have suffered in the same way. The long police investigation and the scandal occurred because the cyclist died. Without that, there’s some minor damage to the car, and a very short police investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/145 "2010-05-27T11:57:32Z")
What did not happen is not relevant. Damages flow out of what happened. I think that you and I will have to disagree on intentional tort damages. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/146 "2010-05-27T12:55:07Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Fair enough - the executive summary was not available at the time I expressed doubts about the outcome. Ah, that makes sense then. I read some of the posts in preview mode, so in reverse order, which made it look like you had posted after the link to the PDF. I apologize. Edit: I was also quite dubious at the initial reports of the dismissed charges. The summary cleared things up quite well. It would have been a huge waste of resources to go for the conviction and would have probably made the deceased look even worse than he already does. He attacked a little old lady! _shakes head_ How did that man end up so damaged? ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/147 "2010-05-27T13:04:08Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > But his sacrifice was not in vain. Now the rest of us know to keep a rabid sqiurrel in a pocket just in case. The lead pipe is more intimidating, but if you use the rabid squirrel, it looks more like an accident. “I don’t know, officer! I was walking by, minding my own business, and then this poor man started yelling ‘Help, squirrel!’” See? Plausible deniability! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/148 "2010-05-27T14:06:45Z")
It is interesting to see how the law has diverged between England and Canada over time. In England, it is killer bunnies. In Canada it is killer squirrels. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/149 "2010-05-27T21:35:59Z")
Giles, have a look at Borins’ decision in Bettel v. Yim, 20 O.R. (2d) 617: > [@](#): > > Thus, the intentional wrongdoer should bear the responsibility for the injuries caused by his conduct and the negligence test of “foreseeability” to limit, or eliminate, liability should not be imported into the field of intentional torts. > > . . . In that case, as in this case, there were two acts to consider – one deliberate and the other accidental – separated in time by a matter of seconds. To grab the plaintiff and shake him is undoubtedly a battery. It was this act that set in motion a chain of events. When something happens as a result of a chain of events deliberately set in motion by the defendant and at the end of that chain of events some act is done by the defendant that causes an unintended injury, it is not an accident. It is conduct for which the defendant must assume responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![mcott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@mcott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcott)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/150 "2010-05-28T00:52:09Z")
The problem here that nobody seems to be addressing is that if Byant had a history of murdering bicycle messengers, that would be prejudicial evidence and not allowed as court room testimony. We seem to protect the accused in this case by pillorying the victim. It seems very weak that the prosecution and defense would work together to decide to drop the charges. Or it might be that I’m just biased against anyone with political connections and an expense account, a publicist, and a highly paid legal team. Please correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/151 "2010-05-28T02:27:48Z")
> [@mcott](#): > > The problem here that nobody seems to be addressing is that if Byant had a history of murdering bicycle messengers, that would be prejudicial evidence and not allowed as court room testimony. We seem to protect the accused in this case by pillorying the victim. It seems very weak that the prosecution and defense would work together to decide to drop the charges. Leaving the specifics of this case aside, what’s wrong with any of this? 1. It’s the accused who has to be protected from the power of the state by having every available defense and by being shielded by various safeguards, and 2. It’s the job of the prosecution to seek justice, not to maximize their conviction rate. If the evidence demonstrated that Bryant was unlikely to be convicted, the prosecution was right to go that way. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/152 "2010-05-28T06:21:39Z")
Welcome back from the dead. Glad the squirrels did not get you. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/153 "2010-05-28T06:43:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > 1. It’s the job of the prosecution to seek justice, not to maximize their conviction rate. If the evidence demonstrated that Bryant was unlikely to be convicted, the prosecution was right to go that way. A good question for our American friends: is it the job of the District Attorney to maximize its conviction rate? Or, is it the job of the DA to seek justice? FTR, I agree with the reasoning of the Ontario Crown prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/154 "2010-05-28T12:30:27Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > A good question for our American friends: is it the job of the District Attorney to maximize its conviction rate? Or, is it the job of the DA to seek justice?.. I’m sure each and every one would claim the latter. But their real job is to get re-elected, and in some cases electoral politics have way more to do with decisions on who and what to prosecute than they should, ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/155 "2010-05-28T12:58:03Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Welcome back from the dead. Glad the squirrels did not get you. Ssh! He doesn’t know he’s dead. He’s all Bruce Willisy right now. > [@mcott](#): > > The problem here that nobody seems to be addressing is that if Byant had a history of murdering bicycle messengers, that would be prejudicial evidence and not allowed as court room testimony. We seem to protect the accused in this case by pillorying the victim. It seems very weak that the prosecution and defense would work together to decide to drop the charges. > > Or it might be that I’m just biased against anyone with political connections and an expense account, a publicist, and a highly paid legal team. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t think you are wrong. I think that the average Joe would be going to trial. If I had been driving along and the same chain of events had happened, I would be heading to the courtroom to plead my case. I’m not even sure as much forensic investigation would have happened. I’d be charged on the basis of the witness accounts alone and stressed out because it could take months or years for the trial to finally get going. Edit: plus, for most victims, you’re not allowed to dredge up their past history because it’s prejudicial. In this case, I think the only argument for bringing up Sheppard’s altercations is that they were arguing the incident had started before Bryant got to the scene. Also, my partner made a good point last night. She said: “Isn’t the saying ‘justice has to be seen to be seen’?” If Bryant’s actions were reasonable, a jury would have acquit. I think that would have more social value than just withdrawing the charges because you’re “pretty sure” of the outcome. You’d never do that in reverse. “Let’s just send him to prison for the rest of his life. There’s a 95% chance they’ll find him guilty and a trial is expensive.” So on the one hand I am satisfied by the reasons of the summary: I understand why they have chosen not to proceed. On the other hand, society might have been better served to see the entire process of “justice” unfold. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/156 "2010-05-28T13:21:39Z")
With similar fact evidence in Canada, the presumption of inadmissibility falls when the the probative value of the proposed evidence outweighs its prejudicial effect ([R. v. Handy, [2002] 2 S.C.R. 908, 2002 SCC 56](http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2002/2002scc56/2002scc56.html)). I very much expect that a driver’s history of murdering bicycle messengers or a bicycle messenger’s history of assaulting drivers would meet the admissibility test. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/157 "2010-05-28T13:24:38Z")
The administration of justice would be brought into disrepute if the Crown were to continue to prosecute following the results of its investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/158 "2010-05-28T13:27:55Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > Ssh! He doesn’t know he’s dead. He’s all Bruce Willisy right now. > I don’t think you are wrong. **I think that the average Joe would be going to trial.** If I had been driving along and the same chain of events had happened, I would be heading to the courtroom to plead my case. … I think you’re [wrong](http://www.nationalpost.com/m/story.html?id=1312738). > [@](#): > > In Ontario, the problem is particularly acute: The average of cases stayed, dismissed or withdrawn is consistently nearly 40%, and it has had the highest rate of failed prosecutions in the country for each of the past five years. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/159 "2010-05-28T13:30:38Z")
I disagree with the unsupported supposition that the police performed a more thorough investigation of the matter due to Bryant’s profile than they would have performed for an average Joe. There is nothing in the report that shows an unusual effort by the police when compared to other investigations I have come across. That being said, media coverage resulted in previous victims of the bicycle courier coming forward, so in that sense, Bryant’s high profile was very helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596/160 "2010-05-28T13:38:32Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > Ssh! He doesn’t know he’s dead. He’s all Bruce Willisy right now. > I don’t think you are wrong. I think that the average Joe would be going to trial. If I had been driving along and the same chain of events had happened, I would be heading to the courtroom to plead my case. I’m not even sure as much forensic investigation would have happened. I’d be charged on the basis of the witness accounts alone and stressed out because it could take months or years for the trial to finally get going. Edit: plus, for most victims, you’re not allowed to dredge up their past history because it’s prejudicial. In this case, I think the only argument for bringing up Sheppard’s altercations is that they were arguing the incident had started before Bryant got to the scene. My impression is that this case did indeed get ‘special treatment’ - because of the fear that the defendant’s status would influence the case, they flew in a special prosecutor, carefully vetted, from BC - but that is just why it was tossed: so mauch careful attention was paid to it _in advance_ that the holes in the case became glaringly obvious pre-trial. > [@](#): > > Also, my partner made a good point last night. She said: “Isn’t the saying ‘justice has to be seen to be seen’?” If Bryant’s actions were reasonable, a jury would have acquit. I think that would have more social value than just withdrawing the charges because you’re “pretty sure” of the outcome. You’d never do that in reverse. “Let’s just send him to prison for the rest of his life. There’s a 95% chance they’ll find him guilty and a trial is expensive.” So on the one hand I am satisfied by the reasons of the summary: I understand why they have chosen not to proceed. On the other hand, society might have been better served to see the entire process of “justice” unfold. I thought about that. In the end, holding a trial just to "clear the air’ when there is no chance of a conviction would I think bring the administration of justice into greater disrepute than not holding a trial that many people, unconnected with the events, want to see held. The guilt or innocence issue is not symmetrical: the crown has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That’s why you coulod never do the reverse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-driver-who-killed-a-cyclist-last-night-used-to-be-the-attorney-general-of-ontario/508596.md?page=9)