# The Duchess of Upstairs Downstairs, Revisited **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 17, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141 "2012-02-17T15:44:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ShallowEnd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@ShallowEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShallowEnd)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/21 "2012-02-18T08:37:24Z")
I loved the Duchess of Duke Street, that’s how I learned I can never make pastry. I have the warmest hands all the time. I loved Poldark! We didn’t have PBS as a child. I thought Masterpiece _was_ Poldark, there was nothing else for so very long. I even went and got all the books. My other two newer favorites were Flambards and Danger UXB. Those were so good. I had a huge crush on Jeremy Sinden. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/22 "2012-02-18T11:35:51Z")
How about [The Forsyte Saga](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061253/)? That’s the gold standard for a lot of people who saw it back in 1967. They made the mistake of shooting it in black and white, just as colour was coming in, and that didn’t bother the initial audience who were used to b&w as standard but since then it’s been a bit sidelined. There was a much later remake, but it wasn’t as good. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/23 "2012-02-18T14:39:59Z")
I love _Upstairs, Downstairs_. And, **Eve** , check out Rose’s eyebrows again. They are not thin. I didn’t like _Duchess of Duke Street_ as well, because I found the lead character unsympathetic (well, irritating would be a better term). But the show surrounding her was quite good. But. I remember every week for thirteen weeks in the early 80s, watching _Brideshead Revisited_ with bated breath, hoping that finally, this week, _something_ would happen that would help me to understand it all. Whatever that something was, it never happened. So I bought the book and read it, hoping desperately to understand it. I discovered that most of the dialog in the series was taken word for word from the book, and I _still_ didn’t understand it. That’s when I realized that I just don’t get along with early 20th century “literary” authors. Waugh, Forster, Fitzgerald, Hardy, Maugham, all of these intellectual writers: we hates 'em, Precious, we does! I think Joyce should have been shot before he was ever allowed to write anything. (Just to complete earning my condemnation as an utter Philistine) Now, _Flambards_, on the other hand, was a BBC series of that period that I enjoyed immensely. But, my heavens, I hate what the early teens did to women’s fashions! Give me the Mauve Decade or the 1900s any day. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/24 "2012-02-18T15:42:42Z")
Just recently watched _Barchester Chronicles_, which I missed when it aired in the early '80’s. More wonderful Brit costume drama, especially Nigel Hawthorne and a very young Alan Rickman (who was born to play Obadiah Slope). I do love me a little Trollope. Rewatched DoDS last year for the first time since it aired, and enjoyed it far more now that I actually have some history knowledge. Working my way through _Upstairs Downstairs_ now, and I have to agree I find it much more personally engaging the _Downton Abbey_. I like DA, but find myself looking at the production details more than the story. Much of the story has a “seen it” feeling that probably comes from watching US/DS. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/25 "2012-02-18T17:50:34Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Simon Williams–who played James, David Langton’s son, in _U/D_–was interviewed ages later and said that as the series went on and he was “aged” with unconvincing grey sideburns, his “father,” David Langton, kept darkening his hair to look younger, so by the end of the series James and his father appeared to be the same age. > > Of course, Rose was about 40 when the series started in 1901, and only about 35 when it ended in 1930. You’ve seen me go on about trying to make the characters’ ages over the course of the series fit into something resembling reality before, but they just won’t go. Best not think about it–that way lies madness. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/26 "2012-02-18T18:09:50Z")
_Lillie_ and _UD_ are available steaming on NetFlix and I plan to watch them once Downton is no more. I’ve added _Brideshead Revisited_ to my Netflix lists (available disk only) because I’ve meant to watch it for the longest time but this thread reminded me; I remember it got beaucoup awards when it aired. Has anybody seen the Lee Remick miniseries _Jennie_ about (Winston’s mother) Jennie Jerome Churchill? Is it similar to these in quality? The 1970s saw the gold standard of British miniseries for my part: the two Tudor miniseries that begin with Keith Michell as a teenaged Henry VIII and proceed through Glenda Jackson as a 70 year old Elizabeth I. No budget, frequent funny gaffes as a result (e.g. there’s a scene in the Catherine of Aragon episode where you briefly see the studio’s ceiling, the new Prince Edward would no more obviously be a doll if HRH Henry VIII pulled a string and it said ‘Ma-ma!’) but the writing, the acting, and all else about it was brilliant. I just put it on par with really good live theater where seeing the occasional stagehand the everlit **Exit** signs doesn’t detract from believability. And of course _I Claudius_, which you’d have to be near to brain dead not to get pulled into it like an undertow. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/27 "2012-02-18T19:07:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The 1970s saw the gold standard of British miniseries for my part: the two Tudor miniseries that begin with Keith Michell as a teenaged Henry VIII and proceed through Glenda Jackson as a 70 year old Elizabeth I. No budget, frequent funny gaffes as a result (e.g. there’s a scene in the Catherine of Aragon episode where you briefly see the studio’s ceiling, the new Prince Edward would no more obviously be a doll if HRH Henry VIII pulled a string and it said ‘Ma-ma!’) but the writing, the acting, and all else about it was brilliant. I just put it on par with really good live theater where seeing the occasional stagehand the everlit **Exit** signs doesn’t detract from believability. And of course _I Claudius_, which you’d have to be near to brain dead not to get pulled into it like an undertow. Along the same lines as _The 6 Wives of Henry VIII_ and\* Elizabeth R\*, but suited for Victorian/Edwardian tastes, may I also recommend _Edward the King/Edward VII_ (the title is different for US vs UK audiences)? Timothy West plays Bertie from his mid-twenties up until his death in 1910; Charles Sturridge, who would later direct Brideshead, plays him in his teens and early 20s. The cast also includes Annette Crosby (who played Catherine of Aragon in the Henry VIII series) as Victoria, Robert Hardy as Albert, Francesca Annis playing Lillie Langtry before she reprised the role in her own miniseries, and Helen Ryan in the first of her _3_ performances as Alexandra. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/28 "2012-02-18T19:40:31Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > . . . I’ve added _Brideshead Revisited_ to my Netflix lists (available disk only) because I’ve meant to watch it for the longest time but this thread reminded me; I remember it got beaucoup awards when it aired . . . No budget, frequent funny gaffes as a result (e.g. there’s a scene in the Catherine of Aragon episode where you briefly see the studio’s ceiling, the new Prince Edward would no more obviously be a doll if HRH Henry VIII pulled a string and it said ‘Ma-ma!’) . . . . And of course _I Claudius_, which you’d have to be near to brain dead not to get pulled into it like an undertow. Oh, yes–it would have been funnier if little Prince Edward had said “My name is Talking Tina, and I don’t like you very much!” Part of why I love \*Brideshead \*so much is that it reminds me of the college friends I was just parting with in 1980–not to compare Baltimore in the 1970s with Oxford in the 1920s–but to us, it \*was \*an enchanted garden. An enchanted garden full of hop-heads and Edie Massey. Oh, _I, Clavdivs_ is another classic, it got me reading Roman history–as entertaining as John Hurt was as Caligula, much of the poor man’s reputation was overblown by his successors. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/29 "2012-02-18T19:49:44Z")
It’s funny how the BBC seems to get blanket credit for British TV shows, whether or not it had anything to do with them. _Upstairs Downstairs, Flambards, Downton Abbey, Brideshead Revisited, Lillie_, none of them are BBC productions. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/30 "2012-02-18T20:26:56Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > _I, Clavdivs_ And of course pronouncing it “I, Clavdivs” naturally led to calling it “I, Clamdip.” ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/31 "2012-02-18T20:48:50Z")
Well, thanks to Eve, we’re in the midst of The Duchess of Duke Street. Bloomin’ 'ell, I wish there were subtitles, though! We settle in, and our ears become accustomed to the accents, but once in a while, there is something I just can’t quite make out. Lillie is another series my friend wanted to re-view, so my husband obtained it through methods better left unsaid. If Eve recommends it, we’ll try that one, too. I swear, we will give Upstairs, Downstairs a go–the first episode was so awkward! I just know it gets better. As well, as running through some of the other series mentioned here. I have noticed since we started watching, that my intake of tea has upped considerably, and I don’t think it’s just the winter weather… ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/32 "2012-02-18T20:59:13Z")
> [@Savannah](#): > > I swear, we will give Upstairs, Downstairs a go–the first episode was so awkward! I just know it gets better. As well, as running through some of the other series mentioned here. The first series of _Upstairs, Downstairs_ is kind of spotty; the writers seem to be trying to find their way towards what they want to do with the show. There are some good episodes, and one or two you are better off skipping entirely. It really doesn’t pick up until near the end. The 2nd through 4th series are consistently better. Before my mom and dad went to the UK with me a couple of years ago for their first trip overseas, I got out my British shows on DVD and had them watch a lot to get used to the accents so I wouldn’t have to translate English into English for them once we were there. Dad, surprisingly, really got into _Upstairs, Downstairs_, which I wouldn’t have thought was his kind of show at all. ---
**Author:** ![Chicken\_Fingers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Chicken\_Fingers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicken_Fingers)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/33 "2012-02-18T23:56:23Z")
How is “Love in a Cold Climate”? I love Nancy Mitford and all her books, but never caught this when it was televised. “Mapp and Lucia” is on streaming Netflix and I’ve just started watching. Not bad so far. I’m a Benson fan, too. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/34 "2012-02-19T00:25:38Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > _Lillie_ and _UD_ are available steaming on NetFlix and I plan to watch them once Downton is no more. I’ve added _Brideshead Revisited_ to my Netflix lists (available disk only) because I’ve meant to watch it for the longest time but this thread reminded me; I remember it got beaucoup awards when it aired. > > Has anybody seen the Lee Remick miniseries _Jennie_ about (Winston’s mother) Jennie Jerome Churchill? Is it similar to these in quality? > > The 1970s saw the gold standard of British miniseries for my part: the two Tudor miniseries that begin with Keith Michell as a teenaged Henry VIII and proceed through Glenda Jackson as a 70 year old Elizabeth I. No budget, frequent funny gaffes as a result (e.g. there’s a scene in the Catherine of Aragon episode where you briefly see the studio’s ceiling, the new Prince Edward would no more obviously be a doll if HRH Henry VIII pulled a string and it said ‘Ma-ma!’) but the writing, the acting, and all else about it was brilliant. I just put it on par with really good live theater where seeing the occasional stagehand the everlit **Exit** signs doesn’t detract from believability. And of course _I Claudius_, which you’d have to be near to brain dead not to get pulled into it like an undertow. I saw the Lee Remick series about Jennie Jerome Churchill when it was broadcast and thought it was pretty good. The 1975 13 episode “Edward the King” about Edward VII is pretty good. Interesting note that Timothy West played Edward in that one and his father Lockwood West played him when he visited the Bellamys for dinner in the episode “Guest of Honor”. Then Sarah, about to give birth to Captain James’s son, decides to pop in. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/35 "2012-02-19T01:23:07Z")
One of the scenes I remember in “Edward the King” is in one of the last parts, I imagine. Edward is dressed to go to his coronation, and appears privately before his family, in robes and a crown. He looks down at the kids and says “Well, aren’t I a funny old grandpa?” and takes them by the hand, dancing around. It was funny and sweet at the same time, and possibly will be re-enacted when Elizabeth II dies. Except I don’t know if Charles has a sense of humor like that. ---
**Author:** ![congodwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@congodwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/congodwarf)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/36 "2012-02-19T02:16:36Z")
damn damn damn damn damn you all!!! I’m supposed to be doing homework, not watching Upstairs Downstairs!!! Thank goodness only season 1 is on Netflix instant because I’m totally hooked. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/37 "2012-02-19T03:26:53Z")
[threadshitting] I thought they were all the same show. [/threadshitting] 😉 Okay, okay, I try not to watch them because I’ll get addicted, but one sometimes must play his “I don’t watch soaps” card, even if that Rolls Royce in ads for the second series of Downton Abbey is sweet and I’m a sucker for the trenches. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/38 "2012-02-19T03:37:30Z")
Hmmm. YouTube seems to have [Duchess](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tntJ6BAREK4), at least parts of it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/39 "2012-02-19T05:25:37Z")
Back in the day, Jean Marsh was on a talk show (Carson?) without a bra and with nipples rampant. Plus her dimples that could cut diamonds. It made me the man I am today. Yeah, this is inappropriate in a discussion of drama, but not all of us watch TV for the drama. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141/40 "2012-02-19T15:49:42Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Hmmm. YouTube seems to have [Duchess](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tntJ6BAREK4), at least parts of it. Oh. great, there goes any work \*I \*was going to get done today. Bleedin’ _'ell!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duchess-of-upstairs-downstairs-revisited/613141.md?page=3)