# The Duggers are at it again! \[Family preparing for 18th child\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706 "2008-05-09T15:20:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/101 "2008-05-09T20:18:43Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Were they able to sustain the family bills withouth handouts before the Discovery Channel specials? If they were, then why take the handouts if they weren’t needed? [/QUOTE] I don’t need any handouts, but I always except free jeans, shirts, etc.; from people who don’t want them. I shop at thriftstores. I go to yard sales. I do this because, well, why spend money if I don’t need to? I have found it is far trendier to say that I do it for the environment. When I have kids, I will continue to do the same thing. I wore hand-me-downs as a child, and it didn’t kill me. It’s part of teaching your children to save money, and not to be taken in by flashy advertising…You know, so they don’t end up crying about their credit card debt 20 years in the future. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/102 "2008-05-09T20:18:56Z")
And it’s from a Planned Parenthood book, hardly impartial. But whatever, I give up trying to get you to actually produce any actual evidence for what you claim. You are just looking to justify judging these people to be less evolved than you for making choices you wouldn’t make for yourself. Tell me, would you be comfortable being judged in the same way? It’s not a choice _they_ would make so it’s not okay for you? And another thing, since when is asking for a cite whining? Huh? Let me check, this is the SDMB right? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/103 "2008-05-09T20:21:59Z")
Sorry **myskeptic** , I misunderstood your words. I see now what you meant. But _you_ made the assertion, not me, I stand by “Back it up or suck it up”. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/104 "2008-05-09T20:27:06Z")
[QUOTE=Spit] I don’t need any handouts, but I always except free jeans, shirts, etc.; from people who don’t want them. I shop at thriftstores. I go to yard sales. I do this because, well, why spend money if I don’t need to? I have found it is far trendier to say that I do it for the environment. When I have kids, I will continue to do the same thing. I wore hand-me-downs as a child, and it didn’t kill me. It’s part of teaching your children to save money, and not to be taken in by flashy advertising…You know, so they don’t end up crying about their credit card debt 20 years in the future. [/QUOTE] There is a difference in accepting things from friends and accepting things from a church that are intended for those in need if you are not in need. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/105 "2008-05-09T20:29:23Z")
[QUOTE=Spit] So gay couples who raise children will always end up with kids who are gay as well? They are so comfortable that way… [/QUOTE] … Hokie dokie, nice talking to you, Spit. (no seriously. Being gay has nothing to do with the Duggar family culture, which has found affluence without college educations) ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/106 "2008-05-09T20:29:32Z")
[QUOTE=elbows] Sorry **myskeptic** , I misunderstood your words. I see now what you meant. But _you_ made the assertion, not me, I stand by “Back it up or suck it up”. [/QUOTE] [http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/1/R23](http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/1/R23) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/107 "2008-05-09T20:30:09Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Were they able to sustain the family bills withouth handouts before the Discovery Channel specials? If they were, then why take the handouts if they weren’t needed? [/quote] I suspect it’s for the same reason that my brother wore my hand-me-downs even after my family had some level of monetary comfort. > [@](#): > > Another problem, even if Jim Bob were rich, is that his income at most provides food and shelter and clothing and not much else. Not even getting into extravagances like Xbox’s and Ipods, wouldn’t you want to be able to give your kids things like trips to the beach, amusement parks, mountains, things like that, that you could do if you had four kids but can’t do with 20? All things considered, isn’t it wrong to prevent your kids from having things or experiences that are denied them simply by your insistence on having more kids? Are we to believe that the day to day experience in the Duggar compound exceeds the benfits of seeing the outside world? It’s one thing for a kid to not be able to do extra things because the family is poor, its another when they can’t do it because you keep having kids. Is it? How can we weigh the value of another member of the family existing against a trip to Stone Mountain? What’s the relative weight of each experience? > [@](#): > > **elbows** , where are you getting that he owns an insurance company? If he is rich from owning an insurance complany, why take church handouts you don’t need? Apart from second-hand clothes, which are a resource not in short supply in the handouts world, they receive no other “handouts” on a regular basis from anywhere – unless, I supposed, you consider the child tax credit a handout. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/108 "2008-05-09T20:32:26Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] There is a difference in accepting things from friends and accepting things from a church that are intended for those in need if you are not in need. [/QUOTE] Second-hand clothes are never in short supply in the handouts world. If they were draining a resource that then cannot go to someone else that needs it, I would agree – but no one’s running out of second-hand clothes to distribute. (I say this with some professional experience as a Knights of Columbus member who has supervised clothes donations drives for fifteen years). ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/109 "2008-05-09T20:33:08Z")
[QUOTE=Sattua] … Hokie dokie, nice talking to you, Spit. (no seriously. Being gay has nothing to do with the Duggar family culture, which has found affluence without college educations) [/QUOTE] You are correct in that they are two different things- I’m just illustrating that whether the mother went to college or not does not dictate what a child will do. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/110 "2008-05-09T20:35:58Z")
[QUOTE=Spit] You are correct in that they are two different things- I’m just illustrating that whether the mother went to college or not does not dictate what a child will do. [/QUOTE] It very well might dictate what the parents will pay for, though. They’re all welcome to go get scholarships, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/111 "2008-05-09T20:37:05Z")
**Bricker** - they accept church donations. Its my understanding that church donations are intended for those in need. Anyone, no matter how wealthy, is free to shop in thrift stores, accept donations from friends, etc. but I think donations from a church are usually reserved for those in true need. As for the benefits of another sibling vs. going to a state park, well, yes, that would be debatable if each child was able to have a meaningful relationship with every new sibling, but since that’s simply not possible, time wise, I don’t see how a new sibling you don’t have time to bond with could be a benefit, whereas seeing the outside world definitely could. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/112 "2008-05-09T20:38:22Z")
[QUOTE=Spit] You are correct in that they are two different things- I’m just illustrating that whether the mother went to college or not does not dictate what a child will do. [/QUOTE] And I have never heard anyone on these boards so much as breathe a whisper of the idea that a poor, inner-city mother should refrain from having a child based on her lack of college education or her likely inability to pay for that child’s college. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/113 "2008-05-09T20:39:22Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] And I have never heard anyone on these boards so much as breathe a whisper of the idea that a poor, inner-city mother should refrain from having a child based on her lack of college education or her likely inability to pay for that child’s college. [/QUOTE] You’re kidding, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/114 "2008-05-09T20:40:14Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] **Bricker** - they accept church donations. Its my understanding that church donations are intended for those in need. Anyone, no matter how wealthy, is free to shop in thrift stores, accept donations from friends, etc. but I think donations from a church are usually reserved for those in true need. [/quote] I think you need to expand your understanding of church donations. What church do you attend, and how do they handle clothing drives there? > [@](#): > > As for the benefits of another sibling vs. going to a state park, well, yes, that would be debatable if each child was able to have a meaningful relationship with every new sibling, but since that’s simply not possible, time wise, I don’t see how a new sibling you don’t have time to bond with could be a benefit, whereas seeing the outside world definitely could. I have meaningful relationships with more than 19 people in my life, and I don’t even live with most of them. Why do you conclude it’s “simply not possible” for the children here? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/115 "2008-05-09T20:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] You’re kidding, right? [/QUOTE] No. Did I miss something? I admit I don’t read every thread, but if such sentiments were ever voiced, I didn’t see them and can’t imagine them coming from a regular. But I’m willing to be educated. Correct me. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/116 "2008-05-09T20:45:22Z")
I was just pointing out the discussion about how much insurance he’d need for his family in the event of untimely death is probably not an issue in this family, no matter how many children they have as he is in the insurance business. > [@](#): > > is _associated_ with increased risk of cardiovascular disease. In rats… You’re kidding, right? I think they go on tv to encourage others to have large families, not a crime. I think the networks put it on tv knowing that people love an opportunity to feel superior to others, and they are not wrong. I’m out. I’m not a fan of great debates and I suspect that **Marley23** might have been referring to me doing the hokey pokey. I don’t want to cross any lines, accidentally or otherwise. And it’s clear to me that no one is actually going to produce any evidence, for what they are asserting, just this sort of tripe in an endless attempt to justify there own judgmental views. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/117 "2008-05-09T20:47:26Z")
I still have never heard that they get handouts, even old clothes and toys. hand-me-downs from within the family, maybe. The girls all wear the same kind of jumper dresses and the boys seem to wear polo shirts and khakis. I’m fairly sure that Jim-Bob and Michelle went to college - I think they met there. Plus, Jim-Bob was a member of the Arkansas State legislature. Who has proof that they accept handouts? I know that when they were building their house they bought second-hand restaurant equipment for the kitchen. The fact that they have the Discovery Channel specials may have less to do with their finances and more to do with showing people that having a large family is doable. That has to do with their religious misson, I’m sure, but again, they aren’t asking that everyone does it. I really have no dog in this fight. I don’t have kids, don’t want kids, and at 47, probably will never have kids. But to abuse a family just because you think you know how they should live and what their kids deserve is wrong, when they aren’t hurting the kids or making you pay for them. StG ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/118 "2008-05-09T20:49:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] No. Did I miss something? I admit I don’t read every thread, but if such sentiments were ever voiced, I didn’t see them and can’t imagine them coming from a regular. But I’m willing to be educated. Correct me. [/QUOTE] There was a thread in the last 2 weeks about poverty and whether anyone who is healthy and doesn’t have bad luck can really be in poverty all their lives except through making bad choices. I expressed the sentiment you are talking about as did others. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/119 "2008-05-09T20:50:54Z")
[QUOTE=elbows] I’m out. I’m not a fan of great debates and I suspect that **Marley23** might have been referring to me doing the hokey pokey. I don’t want to cross any lines, accidentally or otherwise. [/QUOTE] I was making a general comment and probably could have mentioned four or six people, if not more. If you or any one poster had stood out I would have issued a note or warning. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706/120 "2008-05-09T20:53:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m fairly sure that Jim-Bob and Michelle went to college - I think they met there. They met in high school. He was 19 and she was 17. I have also seen articles that have mentioned them receiving up to $20,000 in donations from churches and private citizens, but I am at work and can’t search for them here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-duggers-are-at-it-again-family-preparing-for-18th-child/448706.md?page=7)