# The Dumbing of America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2000, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404 "2000-01-10T21:34:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/1 "2000-01-10T21:34:00Z")
[Rod Serling voice]Submitted for your consideration: the Dumbing-Down of America[/Rod Serling voice] From the Washington Post this week: > [@](#): > > It’s because the questions are no-brainer gimmes that “Millionaire” has become such a hit. In all the analysis of “Millionaire’s” hold on American audiences … many said they liked not having to be a Rhodes scholar to answer the questions. “They’ve made the questions very relatable” is how CBS network chief Les Moonves put it recently. By which he meant no-brainer gimmes. Consider the [Animosity/hostility towards Classical Music?](http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004781.html) thread, which seems to suggest that people resent what they don’t understand. On the original $64,000 Question, for instance, a player was shown six portraits and asked to name not just the artist and the subject, but also the teacher with whom the artist had studied. Another contestant was asked to name the Verdi opera that started Arturo Toscanini’s conducting career, as well as the date of the performance and its location. No lifelines, no asking the audience. Now, a guy wins $1,000,000 for knowing which U.S. President appeared on Laugh-In. I’m suggesting that self-esteem is now more important than knowing the right answer. That a best-selling self-help series is proudly called, “\_\_\_\_\_\_ for Dummies.” That people are perversely proud of not being able to program their VCRs. In short, that stupid is becoming a laudable quality. Thoughts? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/2 "2000-01-10T21:40:00Z")
Don’t be so dumb! * * * Yer pal, Satan _ **First Place** Most Popular Poster of the 20th Century Competition As overseen by Coldfire_ ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/3 "2000-01-11T00:00:00Z")
Hey, which President was on Laugh-In? William Henry Harrison? Yeah, the whole “for Dummies” series has always struck me as a bit odd. I remember being struck favorably by a book title: _Juggling for the Complete Klutz_. Now it’s gotten a little out of hand. I have often joked that so-and-so read the book “Public Policy Analysis for Dummies”, but I fear that there really is a book out there somewhere. My favorite game show by far is “Win Ben Stein’s Money”. The questions are so hard that Ben Stein often complains about them. Which shows you two things I like about the show, Stein’s eccentric personality, and really hard questions. I don’t like that “Man Show” guy very much, though. ---
**Author:** ![Holly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Holly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Holly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/4 "2000-01-11T00:01:00Z")
It does seem to be that the game show questions now are generally easier than they used to be. I think it’s premature to conclude from this, though, that people are dumber now than they used to be. Maybe in the past, game show producers purposefully selected people who were much more knowledgeable than average. You can tell the difference in contestant mentality by watching “Jeopardy” and “The Price Is Right”; these shows are geared towards two very different audiences. Maybe in the past, game show producers assumed that people enjoyed watching contestants who were very smart, and maybe they were right. Maybe now people prefer to watch contestants who are more like themselves, “smart-wise”. Maybe audiences got tired of not knowing the answers to any of the questions, and are bored with oohing and ahhing over a super-smart person’s knowledge base. (Don’t you get a little more excited when you know the answer to the question?) Maybe in the past, contestants were able to answer those hard questions because the shows were fixed. There is some pretty good evidence that this did occur on some occasions. The lure of the “Millionaire” show is that regular people can get rich. The audience is encouraged to strongly identify with the contestants; the players are average people, just like you or me. If you identify with the contestant, you care more about the outcome. If the questions are within your ability to answer, you identify more strongly and feel like you’re actually participating. By asking the audience for assistance or using that phone call for help, the contestant is made even more human and the audience is even more involved. ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/5 "2000-01-11T00:06:00Z")
_:wiping chin and peering up from “Message Boards for Dummies”:_ Huh? {B] I /b dont {b}see what alls the fuss is about. The way I see it: |llist\ - some americans R smart - big \*[friggan woo/p. Your really clever because U drive on a parkway! biG words won’t get you very far in the hot hot fires of HELL, will they, Mr. BIGwordGUY? ( some american is stoopid. hooray 4 them? Look how dumb one is - Kill him because he’s not like you? This is not "laudable: endlist~~~ Maybe weare not less brilliant but things just seam that way because the universe is now contracting towards the captain crunch and nuclear atoms in my brain are banging together more often faster and faster and it hurts. You’re post reeks of smarttypants! That’s me thinking. * * * Hell is Other People. ---
**Author:** ![APB9999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB9999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB9999)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/6 "2000-01-11T00:27:00Z")
Me too with Sake. ---
**Author:** ![APB9999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB9999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB9999)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/7 "2000-01-11T00:32:00Z")
Actually, I saw a preview the other day where they brought back Twenty-One. Isn’t that the game show famous for cheating? The one in the fifties where VanDoren was humiliated? Why would you bring this show back, and even _use the same name_? IIRC, the questions were extremely difficult in the original (hence the cheating). Maybe Jeopardy is going to get some competition. BTW Millionaire has questions that supposedly vary in difficulty. I’ve only seen it once or twice, but in the few rounds I saw, sometimes the questions got tougher, sometimes they didn’t, really. ---
**Author:** ![Holly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Holly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Holly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/8 "2000-01-11T00:43:00Z")
Sake, please take your medication. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/9 "2000-01-11T01:57:00Z")
I did 😉 * * * Hell is Other People. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/10 "2000-01-11T02:15:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Hell is Other People Sarte never saw a game show. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/11 "2000-01-11T02:21:00Z")
APB9999… It was The 64k question with the scandal. * * * If you can’t convince them, confuse them. Harry S. Truman ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/12 "2000-01-11T02:41:00Z")
If I recall correctly, and it has been quite a while, on the $64,000 Question the contestant would choose his catagory for the entire run of questions. So, naturally the later questions would be more specialized, as the show was testing the contestant’s knowledge of a given area. The modern Millionaire show is looking for contestants with a broader knowledge base. No single question is as hard as the final ones in the older show, but they cover a much wider range of knowledge. Different shows, different intentions. BTW, you will all recognize me if I get on that show. I will be the contestant who jumps across the podium and smacks that supercilious expression off Regis’ face when he say “Is that your _FINAL ANSWER_” one time too manny. ## …in the god-damn Jeopardy pool, but do they call me? Noooo… The pool has too manny middle-aged guys with grey beards for the producers. They can’t have nerds on every show, and they have to limit the number of geeks… I need to get a more interesting hobby. Maybe breeding leopards in the basement… Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University “You cannot reason a man out of a position he did not reach through reason.” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/13 "2000-01-11T02:58:00Z")
Banks wrote: > [@](#): > > It was The 64k question with the scandal. The $64,000 Question **may** have been implicated along with all the other rigged game shows that were exposed in the 1950s, but _Dotto_ was the first exposed, and _Twenty-One_ that was the most infamous. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/14 "2000-01-11T03:40:00Z")
[quote] The $64,000 Question **may** have been implicated along with all the other rigged game shows that were exposed in the 1950s, but Dotto was the first exposed, and Twenty-One that was the most infamous. [quote] Twenty-One was infamous… but it’s “was,” not “may.” Patty Duke was a child contestant on the _$64,000 Question_, and wrote about the cheating exposé in her excellent autobiography _Call Me Anna_. She was actualyy subpoenaed to testify in front of the Congressional inquiry. She lied at first – but then broke down and told the truth. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/15 "2000-01-11T03:50:00Z")
Bricker: I recommend the following book to you: **_Dumbing Down Our Kids_, Subtitle: Why American Children Feel Good About Themselves But Can’t Read, Write, or Add** , by Charles J. Sykes, ISBN 0-312-1-14823-2, published by St. Martin’s Griffin, New York. 1995. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/16 "2000-01-11T04:13:00Z")
Re: “The $64,000 Question.” Dr. Joyce Brothers was another contestant of note on that show. I understand that her category was “Professional Prizefighting.” I also understand that to this day, she maintains that all of the knowldge she displayed on the show was hers, all hers, by dint of long-standing interest in and research of the sport. I’m not in a position to contradict her. * * * Of course truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense. Mark Twain ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/17 "2000-01-11T04:26:00Z")
A bit dated now, but very applicable: read \*_Dumbth_ by Steve Allen. This is guy who came from television, mind. It is very readable, if you can rise above your own pain. Yeah, Ben Stein and Jeopardy are the only two “knowledge” shows that aren’t an active insult to intelligence. IMO, it’s true; all too many Americans are just plain ignorant of crucial basic knowledge. We opted for warm fuzzies and self-esteem but flat out _cheated_ a generation of their birthright of knowledge. And less I sound like a complete curmudgeon (which I am, but to continue…)my parents, in the Great Depression, for God’s sake, were required to learn Latin, real math, history, English, etc. Frankly, diagramming sentences isn’t fun at first, but damned if it doesn’t teach one how language is structured. Sorry, got off track here…but to return to the OP, people aren’t dumber; we just quit showing them how much there is to learn. Thumping my cane for emphasis, Veb ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/18 "2000-01-11T04:28:00Z")
And know what’s even worse? People who can’t even use the bolding thing… –\>slinking off now, Veb ---
**Author:** ![N\_oR\_jVIaL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@N\_oR\_jVIaL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N_oR_jVIaL)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/19 "2000-01-11T04:44:00Z")
“In short, that stupid is becoming a laudable quality” * * * Don’t mention it… It’s really just a gift. …butt, on a more sarcastic note… There is a certain symmetry, in that one would guage the “dumbness” of an entire civilization, based primarily on the quality of TV game shows. Is that irony? I can"t find my dikshunary for dumeez. ---
**Author:** ![Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cooper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404/20 "2000-01-11T04:55:00Z")
I don’t think America has gotten dumber. I think much of the record of history has ignored the base and stupid aspects of our lives - the majority of everyone’s life and the entirety of the majority’s - so that many people have a somewhat rosier view of the average intellect of the past than is warranted. Furthermore, early American television was very careful not to shatter **any** rosy views (not just intellectual game shows, but Father Knows Best and all that other rot). It really didn’t take all that long before the market brought television around. Jeopardy is an enigma - it must have a very die-hard following who really enjoy the show because it truly does not appeal to most people. Ben Stein’s money is far more entertaining - it was very clever of them to do the ‘funny topic names’ and have Jimmy horse around a lot - it makes the show watchable by more people. And Ben Stein is just awesome! Ben Stein for president! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dumbing-of-america/17404.md?page=2)