# The Durham indictments prosecuting fake Trump 'collusion' **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 23, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215 "2021-09-23T20:11:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/502 "2023-03-02T14:58:51Z")
Moderating: @Turek, for Post #501. > **[Rubber duck debugging](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging)** > > In software engineering, rubber duck debugging (or rubberducking) is a method of debugging code by articulating a problem in spoken or written natural language. The name is a reference to a story in the book The Pragmatic Programmer in which a programmer would carry around a rubber duck and debug their code by forcing themselves to explain it, line by line, to the duck. Many other terms exist for this technique, often involving different (usually) inanimate objects, or pets such as a dog or a > Many programmers have had the experience of explaining a problem to someone else, possibly even to someone who knows nothing about programming, and then hitting upon the solution in the process of explaining the problem. In describing what the code is supposed to do and observing what it actually does, any incongruity between these two becomes apparent. For disregarding moderator instructions to leave off with the hijacking in the post just above yours, I’m issuing a warning to you. It gives me no pleasure to do so, but our instructions must be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/503 "2023-03-03T19:24:44Z")
Moderating: After a private conversation with Turek and some time to think it over, I’m persuaded that he simply missed the mod note and did not knowingly violate it. Accordingly, I’m reversing the warning I issued on March 2, 2023. Being a member in good standing and one who has obviously carefully considered his posts for all this time (more than 20 years without a warning) should count for something. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/504 "2023-05-15T22:29:00Z")
Talk about getting the last word in after anybody stopped caring… > **[After 4-year probe, Durham report slams FBI for actions in 2016 Russia...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/after-4-year-probe-durham-report-slams-fbi/story?id=99338300)** > > The DOJ released special counsel John Durham's final report examining the origins of the investigation into former President Trump's 2016 campaign and its ties to Russia. I’ll admit, I don’t remember the FBI lawyer being convicted of altering the email, but this article sort of lost over the fact that the rest of the high profile convictions that he went after ended an acquittal. Naturally, the mango Mussolini is already spouting off about how this acquits him of colluding with Russia. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/505 "2023-05-15T22:42:00Z")
Yeah, I saw the headlines today that said “Special Counsel slams FBI” instead of “Special Trump Counsel Has Jack Fucking Shit, Slams Door In Petulant Tantrum.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/506 "2023-05-15T23:26:04Z")
So the Durham probe produced all but nothing. Any comment, @Sam_Stone? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/507 "2023-05-15T23:27:22Z")
Well, the day Sam Stone has been waiting for is finally here. Durham has, after 4 years, millions of dollars, one misdemeanor conviction, and 2 laughable prosecutions that he lost at trial, has had his report released to the public. Finally, the deep state conspiracy will be revealled. Or it could be 306 pages of the partisan hackery we’ve all come to expect from Durham. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/508 "2023-05-16T01:52:17Z")
“LAPTOP! BENGHAZI!” Complete sentence for form’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/509 "2023-05-16T07:17:03Z")
And another career willingly dragged through the mud for Trump. Wasn’t Durham a legit lawyer before this? ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/510 "2023-05-16T17:53:56Z")
The catturd crowd is aMAZed people dont mind that the fbi and democrats did this, why they not in jail? Twitter must be read with a cautious eye. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/511 "2023-05-16T18:54:16Z")
Durham was empowered to prosecute whoever he wanted to right? So why don’t they ask him why nobody is in jail? I know the answer, and I think they are close to getting it, but it would require them admitting that they have had this all wrong the whole time, and that ain’t happening. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/512 "2023-05-16T19:20:41Z")
I haven’t had much chance to read it so I’m only a dozen or so pages in. So far, his principal argument is that if you compare the amount of implicit trust given to Hillary Clinton, by the FBI, it seems to have been larger than the amount of trust given to Trump. He hasn’t yet gone through his evidence, to demonstrate the truth of that argument. That said, I’m not strongly opposed to the idea that it’s correct. But I feel like Mr. Durham is ignoring some context that would explain the discrepancy: 1. Trump might have already said a variety of bizarre, pro-Russia statements by this point in time, publicly (I haven’t checked yet). If so, that should be added to the initial evidentiary pile, not just the word of the Australian source, which is all that he indicates was used. I believe that there was more. 2. The Australian source was a _reliable_ source, not some random crank off the Internet. 3. The FBI - and, specifically, Strzok and Comey - had a long history of investigating Clinton. She was, by this point in time, already well within their knowledge sphere and they probably had a pretty good sense for how much effort it’s worth spending on her. With Trump, that was not yet true. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/513 "2023-05-16T19:37:24Z")
And, he should note that both Comey and Strzok were Republicans so, regardless that they might have preferred a different Republican to take the office, there’s still no strong reason to think that they’d have any aggressive position against him. Strzok was also very negative towards Clinton and pretty much every other politician, in his texts. Disliking politicians is the norm for most regular people and Americans. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/514 "2023-05-16T19:44:57Z")
Disliking people you suspect of criminal activity is the norm for most law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/515 "2023-05-16T23:20:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Disliking politicians is the norm for most regular people and Americans. I don’t think you intended this to be funny, but it did make me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/516 "2023-05-17T00:02:10Z")
> [@Durham Report](#): > > These examples are also markedly different from the FBI’ s actions with respect to other highly significant intelligence it received from a trusted foreign source pointing to a Clinton campaign plan to vilify Trump by tying him to Vladimir Putin so as to divert attention from her own concerns relating to her use of a private email server. Unlike the FBI’s opening of a full investigation of unknown members of the Trump campaign based on raw, uncorroborated information, in this separate matter involving a purported Clinton campaign plan, the FBI never opened any type of inquiry, issued any taskings, employed any analytical personnel, or produced any analytical products in connection with the information. From my understanding, Trump was accused of working with foreign intelligence agents. Clinton is being accused by a foreign agent of using Trump’s own statements against him. I’m not seeing any crime that the FBI would be able to investigate? That said: > [@](#): > > This lack of action was despite the fact that the significance of the Clinton plan intelligence was such as to have prompted the Director ofthe CIA to brief the President, Vice President, Attorney General, Director of the FBI, and other senior government officials about its content within days of its receipt. It was also of enough importance for the CIA to send a formal written referral memorandum to Director Corney and the Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division, Peter Strzok, for their consideration and action. Though, I suppose, there is the question of how foreign agents would have known this information? Maybe it was obvious? ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/517 "2023-05-17T01:24:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I am not a lawyer, but I have seen several analyses of this indictment which say it’s a placeholder for further conspiracy charges. So, from the OP, did this come about? And from the wording, there was at least one conspiracy charge. How did that go? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/518 "2023-05-17T16:29:35Z")
I do admire the set of gonads on Durham. Just the sheer gumption to conclude that the Mueller investigation, which resulted in 34 people indicted, multiple felony convictions, prison senences, and trial wins, should not have happened, while his “investigation” itself resulted in a grand total of one nisdemeanor conviction and two jury trial, both of wich he lost. Thats some next level delusion and partisan hackery. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/519 "2023-05-17T16:37:14Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > So far, his principal argument is that if you compare the amount of implicit trust given to Hillary Clinton, by the FBI, it seems to have been larger than the amount of trust given to Trump. …er, yeah… > **[The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/)** > > So why won't the media admit as much? > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Trump might have already said a variety of bizarre, pro-Russia statements by this point in time, publicly Like this? > **[Trump sides with Russia against FBI at Helsinki summit](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812)** > > The US president contradicts intelligence agencies over claims of interference in the US election. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/520 "2023-05-17T16:49:58Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > …er, yeah… First, let me say that I’m not the sort to think that I either need to be _with_ or _against_ someone. I’ll defend Comey where I believe he deserves to be defended and attack him where I think he deserves to be attacked. I’m not sure that Comey had the organizational qualities to successfully run a large organization, nor the calm demeanor necessary to handle surprises well. My understanding of “the letter” is that Comey was mostly putting any politically sensitive investigation into the hands of McCabe and Strzok, rather than farming it out among the 10s of thousands of employees at his disposal. (And, granted, clearance rules might have limited his selection but I can’t imagine that there’s really only 4-5 people who can root around in the private lives of politicians.) McCabe was the second highest person in an organization and was also, personally, investigating Hillary Clinton and had her computer under his desk? 🤨 At any rate, the letter was written because they’d basically forgotten about the investigation and hadn’t moved on it. Comey seems to have over-reacted, when he was informed of that, because he wanted to defend McCabe from his failure in moving forward with the case, in an efficient way. (Or, at least, that’s their cover story and I can’t imagine that you’d come up with _that_ as a cover story if you had something better to give.) That’s not contrary to Durham’s charge, just more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/521 "2023-05-17T18:56:13Z")
\< snip \> > [@Hamlet](#): > > while his “investigation” itself resulted in a grand total of one nisdemeanor conviction and two jury trial, both of wich he lost. AIUI, they weren’t even regular jury trials, but grand jury proceedings. I guess most US Attorneys can indict a ham sandwich. Except John Durham. As for the misdemeanor conviction, it wasn’t Durham’s work that uncovered the violation. It was the DOJ Inspector General – who filed his report in 2019. Durham just lifted it and included it in his own report. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > My understanding of “the letter” is that Comey was mostly putting any politically sensitive investigation into the hands of McCabe and Strzok, rather than farming it out among the 10s of thousands of employees at his disposal. Andrew McCabe was, as you point out, Comey’s #2. Obviously he trusted McCabe more than anyone else in the organization. Peter Strzok was the most experienced FBI guy in All Things Russian. Who else would Comey have given these assignments to? Your account ignores the fact that this investigation arose as a _counter intelligence investigation_ out of comments made by George Papadopoulos to an Australian diplomat in May of 2016. It did not become an investigation of Trump until Trump fired Comey. It was McCabe who initiated the investigation into Trump – but that didn’t happen until after Trump was already president. Comey wrote his letter to Congress on October 28, 2016, because during his ill-advised press conference in July 2016, he promised to keep Congress informed if anything more arose out of the email situation. He never dreamed a bunch of those emails would turn up on Huma Abedin’s husband, Anthony Weiner’s, computer and be discovered just days before the election. Given his promise made at the July 2016 press conference and knowing the information would leak out of the FBI’s New York field office, he had no choice but to disclose the existence of the further investigation to Congress. And the rest, as they say, is history. But it sure didn’t happen the way you’re making it sound. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215.md?page=27)