# The Durham indictments prosecuting fake Trump 'collusion' **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 23, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215 "2021-09-23T20:11:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/142 "2021-11-07T20:06:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Biden’s political career will be done after his term, Let me guess, Robert Kennedy is going to come back from his fake death, and together with his 104 year old father will annoint Trump back into the whitehouse. Have I got the details right? Or are Gerry Garcia, Michael Jackson and Hunter S. Thompson also involved in the secret plot? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/143 "2021-11-07T20:07:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Hunter S. Thompson also involved in the secret plot? Sounds like the plot of one of his novels. ETA: on second thought, maybe not. Too surreal. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/144 "2021-11-07T20:09:06Z")
One thing is sure - a great many Republicans have lost their fucking minds. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/145 "2021-11-07T20:12:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Gerry Garcia Pardon me, but Sir, it’s Jerry Garcia. Gerry is McAvoy. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/146 "2021-11-07T20:13:45Z")
Apologies. I was mixing him up with the Ben and Jerry’s ice cream. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/147 "2021-11-07T20:41:30Z")
They should do a Hunter Thompson themed ice cream. Maybe they could add hard candy in the shape of pills or something! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/148 "2021-11-07T22:12:40Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Maybe they could add hard candy in the shape of pills or something! I wonder how well Tic Tacs would hold up in ice cream. ---
**Author:** ![Abatis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d78d45/32.png) [@Abatis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abatis)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/149 "2021-11-09T16:58:46Z")
The “Russia Hoax” isn’t the target / object of Durham’s investigation; it sure is part of it but it isn’t the originating actions. The “Russia Hoax” and everything that went with it (including the Mueller “investigation”) was the cover-up of the real crimes Durham is targeting. That all began well before the election, even before Trump became the presumptive nominee . . . Actually it began in 2012, with the IRS targeting scandal and those crimes continued right into the Trump administration and ran through the Mueller investigation and were integrated in it. The real crimes was the FBI’s illegal searching and harvesting of NSA data on US citizens. Admiral Mike Rogers, Obama’s NSA Director discovered the illegal activity in the Spring of 2016 and tried to stop it – and failed. He discovered the FBI was allowing unfettered access to the NSA database, by yet a unnamed “private contractor” and Rogers shut down all private contractor access to the NSA on April 18, 2016 . . . The next morning, April 19th, Mary Jacoby, wife of Fusion GPS’s Glenn Simpson, arrived at the White House and stayed for 14 hours. By the end of April, Fusion GPS was in the employ of the DNC and the HRC campaign, no doubt with terabytes of pilfered data . . . All set up by a lawyer for both entities working for Perkins Coie, a lawyer by the name of Michael Sussman . . . You people know nothing. Funny thing is, Trump knew everything. Admiral Rogers, still the NSA Director, without telling any of his superiors, went to Trump Tower on January 17, 2017 (right after the SCIF was set up in trump Tower) and told Trump everything about the spying that had been done on him and his people and that was still going on. Trump abandoned Trump Tower the next day for Bedminster, never to return to Trump Tower for any sensitive transition work. Oh yeah, it has long been known Admiral Rogers has been working with Durham. Anyone who thinks this is a thinly predicated nothingburger, is in for a very rude awakening. So much about the illegal NSA abuse is set-out in two FISC orders, the second of which was declassified by Trump in October of 2019. Coinciding with the public release of that order, Barr announced the Durham investigation _had become_ a criminal investigation. There was nothing coincidental about those two events and most people prattling on about Durham don’t have a clue, not an inkling about what really happened and what is already in the public domain. The reckoning is going to be so, so, sweet! . ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/150 "2021-11-09T17:01:59Z")
Oh Lord! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/151 "2021-11-09T17:09:56Z")
> [@Abatis](#): > > Durham don’t have a clue, not an inkling about what really happened and what is already in the public domain. > > The reckoning is going to be so, so, sweet! I’ve read pretty much every legal document related to Mueller, Hurricane, and Durham. As of yet, the largest accusation against anyone in law enforcement is that the FBI agents who are charged with hunting down bad guys make poor advocates for the bad guys. I don’t find that particularly surprising and I doubt that the people who crafted the law (aka Republicans) ever had any expectation otherwise. One notes, additionally, that Trump never revised those laws and, in fact, signed off to continue them. Devin Nunes also voted to continue them. Also, you are going to have to provide cites on the _contents_ of Roger’s Trump Tower meeting and Trump’s choice to not use Trump Tower for material matters. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/152 "2021-11-09T17:10:27Z")
The notion that Trump gives a rat’s rump about civil liberties in the abstract, as opposed to government investigations into his own personal skeletons (which are sufficiently numerous to remake _Jason and the Argonauts_), goes beyond “I was born at night, but not _last_ night” all the way to “I was born some time ago, but not a _Planck_ time ago”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/153 "2021-11-09T17:11:21Z")
> [@Abatis](#): > > The reckoning is going to be so, so, sweet! Yep, _any day now_. That was definitely worth coming back after two years to tell us. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/154 "2021-11-09T17:16:57Z")
In my opinion, the Republicans loudly shutting down the IRS investigation into the Tea Party grift was one of the biggest strategic mistakes they’ve ever made, forever preempting future investigations as their constituents have consistently had their good faith donations stolen ever since. If they had put a stop to the grift 10 years ago, Trump might have won in 2020. Here’s a couple of cites from conservative sources who saw the problem at that time. > **[The Right’s Grifter Problem | National Review](https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/the-real-problem-conservatism-faces-today/)** > > No, the answer is not David French. > **[50 Million Down The Tubes: How 17 Conservative PACs Are Spending Their Money...](https://rightwingnews.com/john-hawkins/50-million-tubes-17-conservative-pacs-spending-money/)** > > The late, great Eric Hoffer once said that, “Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” Some people have started to wonder ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/155 "2021-11-09T17:19:14Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > In my opinion, the Republicans loudly shutting down the IRS investigation into the Tea Party grift was one of the biggest strategic mistakes they’ve ever made, forever preempting future investigations as their constituents have consistently had their good faith donations stolen ever since. > > If they had put a stop to the grift 10 years ago, Trump might have won in 2020. That presumes that he would have gotten into politics in the first place if the system weren’t ripe with grifting opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/156 "2021-11-09T18:13:29Z")
John Ratcliff was the Director of National Intelligence when the Durham investigation started, and he was responsible for providing both classified and unclassified material to the Durham investigation. He said that Durham’s indictments so far are just the beginning. Durham has access to the classified information we don’t, and Ratcliff says the stuff in there is absolutely explosive and he expects ‘many’ indictments to come out of it, including indictments of people at the ‘highest levels’ of government. Here’s the Danchenko indictment: [https://www.justice.gov/sco/press-release/file/1446386/download](https://www.justice.gov/sco/press-release/file/1446386/download) Where Durham appears to be going is that the ‘Dossier’ was a Clinton/DNC dirty trick created by _actually colluding_ with Russian officials and spooks. Danchenko himself had been investigated for being a potential Russian agent, was still a Russian citizen, and is a suspected FSB agent. He was the ‘source’ Steele used for many of the salacious ‘facts’ in the Dossier, which turned out to be drunken innuendo and outright fabrications. One of the new facts in this indictment is that Danchenko was working with a person with direct ties to Hillary Clinton. This person actually provided some of the material used in the Steele Dossier. That means that Hillary didn’t just commission a fake dossier, but that her people helped create it. There was also a quid pro quo, as there are emails from Danchenko to others saying he expects a big political reward when Hillary is elected. If all that holds up, then what we have is the biggest political scandal in U.S. history - a country tied up for years and a Presidential administration hobbled by what may turn out to be a lie propagated by the opposing party and presidential candidate. This is another ‘speaking indictment’ that pulls even more people into the conspiracy. If you don’t believe me, this is how the Associated Press describes it: > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (AP) — A Russian analyst who contributed to a dossier of Democratic-funded research into ties between Russia and Donald Trump was arrested Thursday on charges of lying to the FBI about his sources of information, among them a longtime supporter of Hillary Clinton. > > The case against Igor Danchenko is part of special counsel John Durham’s ongoing investigation into the origins of the FBI’s probe into whether Trump’s 2016 campaign and Russia had conspired to tip the outcome of that year’s presidential campaign. > > The indictment, the third criminal case brought by Durham and the second in a two-month span, is likely to boost complaints from Trump allies that well-connected Democrats worked behind the scenes to advance suspicions about Trump and Russia that contributed to the FBI’s election-year investigation. > … > The indictment says Danchenko misled the FBI by denying that he had discussed any allegations in the dossier with a contact of his who was a public relations executive and longtime Democratic operative who volunteered for the campaign of Clinton, Trump’s 2016 opponent. In fact, the indictment says, Danchenko had sourced one or more allegations in the dossier anonymously to that Clinton associate. This is also interesting: > [@](#): > > The indictment also accuses Danchenko of lying to the FBI about a July 2016 phone call he claimed he received from someone he believed to be the president of the Russian-American Chamber of Commerce. That person, according to the dossier and Danchenko’s account to the FBI, told him about a “well-developed conspiracy of co-operation” between the Trump campaign and Russia — an assertion that prosecutors say “would ultimately underpin” the surveillance warrant applications. > > **The indictment says Danchenko fabricated his account and never actually received such a phone call.** So the main ‘fact’ used to wiretap American citizens was completely made up. > **[Analyst who aided Trump-Russia dossier charged with lying](https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-arrests-john-durham-9d2344081036235309346ad95b14a8bc)** > > A Russian analyst who provided information for a dossier of research used during the Trump-Russia investigation has been charged with lying to the FBI when questioned about his work. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/157 "2021-11-09T18:22:59Z")
> [@Abatis](#): > > The reckoning is going to be so, so, sweet! Especially as JFK Jr. personally hands down the indictments, right? Is it going to be at a Rolling Stones concert or will he be preempting the NASCAR awards ceremony for Brandon? In _two_ weeks! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/158 "2021-11-09T19:07:53Z")
Ratcliff is a partisan hack. His yapping is no less likely to be total bullshit than Trump himself. This is still barely a story. Call me if there’s a trial or a plea; so far it still looks like a hair more than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/159 "2021-11-09T19:16:34Z")
Okay, I’ll put you down as ‘nothing to see here’. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/160 "2021-11-09T19:25:08Z")
Well, yeah, so far, all you’ve shown is a bunch of smoke and mirrors. You may find it convincing to reinforce what you already want to believe, but some of the rest of us need some actual facts, not just assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215/161 "2021-11-09T19:26:35Z")
Why should I give any credence to anything John Ratcliff has to say, given his connections to Trump? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-durham-indictments-prosecuting-fake-trump-collusion/951215.md?page=9)