# The Dutch have a tradition of "dropping" their children off in a forest at night **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 5, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465 "2021-05-05T18:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/21 "2021-05-06T10:18:51Z")
When my dad and I went hunting, he would always make me responsible for finding our way back to the car. Sometimes he would pretend to get lost on the road back home and ask me which way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/22 "2021-05-06T13:12:40Z")
This practice may sound dangerous for non-Dutch, but in The Netherlands it is impossible to get far away from civilization. The ‘woods’ consist mostly of relatively small patches of wood that are intersected with lots of hiking trails, and mostly very close near motorways and populated areas. Furthermore there is no dangerous wildlife to speak of. Supposedly there exist poisonous snakes (adders) but I’ve never heard of anyone encountering any. No bears, sometimes there is a sighting of a wolf. The most serious danger would probably consist of falling into a trench, or getting hit by a car if you were foolish enough to try to cross a busy motorway (a large proportion of motorways are lighted, though I’m not sure about the countryside). I’m actually not sure how widespread nightly ‘droppings’ are; I only participated in a daytime scavenger hunt where we got lost for a while. It is not a rite of passage for every child, but neither is it rare AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/23 "2021-05-06T13:17:35Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > In the sequel to "Cabin in the Woods " we discover that trolls demand the sacrifice of one child a year or they’ll destroy the Netherlands It would have to be a prequel. I’m pretty sure the world ended in CitW. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/24 "2021-05-06T13:21:24Z")
It’s like the baby Martians in Heinlein’s _Stranger in a Strange Land_. You send the young out to compete and try to survive, and you collect the hardiest ones back. Reminds me of my Order of the Arrow “ordeal” – you get sent out into the woods and spend the night on your own. I think almost all of us got back in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/25 "2021-05-06T13:25:37Z")
They say Spartan kids received no shoes, or clothes other than one cloak per year, and hardly any food. If they couldn’t hack it and fend for themselves, then too bad, they must not have been cut out to be invincible, resourceful warriors. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/26 "2021-05-06T13:28:31Z")
Part of the reason this strikes Americans as being so strange is that American parents are possibly the most overprotective ones in the world (and this is a comparatively recent thing, not something that’s been true for the past century or whatever): > **[From Tokyo to Paris, Parents Tell Americans to Chill (Published 2018)](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/reader-center/free-range-parenting-outside-united-states.html)** > > In many countries, children have the very freedoms that American parents can grant only by chafing against law or custom, our international readers say. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/27 "2021-05-06T13:37:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@panache45](#): > > > > No, they weren’t abandoned. They were sent out to pick berries, and got lost before nightfall. > > This is my favorite fairy tale, and I’ve read lots of different versions, and I’ve _never_ encountered a “sent out to pick berries” version. Are you sure you’re not misremembering? It’s definitely in the opera version (sent to pick strawberries). Where Humperdink got it, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/28 "2021-05-06T13:47:18Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > They say Spartan kids received no shoes, or clothes other than one cloak per year, and hardly any food. If they couldn’t hack it and fend for themselves, then too bad, they must not have been cut out to be invincible, resourceful warriors. Xenophon and Plutarch wrote about Spartan training, which was pretty rough. But, heck, even before they got to that point Spartan babies obviously had to learn to avoid that Great Big Round Pit in the ground with no guardrails into with they kicked Persian ambassadors. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/29 "2021-05-06T14:02:09Z")
Europeans seem a lot more free-range than Americans. Aren’t their Icelanders who leave their babies in strollers outside a restaurant in the winter while the parents eat indoors? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/30 "2021-05-06T14:41:05Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > It’s definitely in the opera version (sent to pick strawberries). Where Humperdink got it, I don’t know. Wow, [that’s fascinating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansel_and_Gretel_(opera))! I’d never heard of that opera, much less that version of the story. The article says Humperdink got the lyrics from his sister (I think). That said, it takes out much of what I like about the story. It’s so powerful to me because it shows the children living in a world of hostile adults, and they have to rely on their mutual love, courage, and wits to survive. Early in the story, Hansel saves Gretel from death; later, Gretel saves Hansel from death. The theme of starvation that runs through the story ties everything together. The opera sounds like it makes the parents a lot less sinister, and it makes starvation much less of an issue, and the children sound much less responsible and clever and loving. Still, thanks for the info–it’s cool to learn about it! ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/31 "2021-05-06T14:43:20Z")
How about a Danish woman who [got arrested for leaving her baby outside a NYC restaurant](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/26/anette-sorenson-denmark-new-york-baby-left-outside)? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/32 "2021-05-06T14:47:57Z")
That’s what I was going to say… dropping kids in the “woods” in the Netherlands is a wholly different animal than dropping your kids in the woods in much of the US, as the woods there are smaller and more bounded by civilized areas than in some parts of the US. Plus, it doesn’t really describe how old the “children” are. I’m guessing probably 10-14, and that’s not really too much different than some of the things they let US kids do at the same ages. I’d be pretty amazed if they’re dropping 5 and 6 year olds off in the woods like that. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/33 "2021-05-06T14:49:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Wow, [that’s fascinating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansel_and_Gretel_(opera))! I’d never heard of that opera, much less that version of the story. You might have heard the Evening Prayer from it; it’s pretty well-known. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HuIpZ_3tmr8/hqdefault.jpg "Evening Prayer from Hansel & Gretel Opera") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuIpZ_3tmr8) ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/34 "2021-05-06T14:53:33Z")
I don’t know where I read this, but if I understand correctly, the original “fairy tales” were not just for children – for one thing, stories were told when everyone was gathered around the hearth at night. A lot of the stories, like Hansel and Gretel, were about the dangers of the forest, and the desperation of peasants who in times of famine might have to abandon or sell their children. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/35 "2021-05-06T15:10:06Z")
Droppings are a staple of holiday camps, scouts do it, and students. I’ve only done it once myself when I was like 18 or so. Plus, as already noted, we don’t have real forests, we have parks containing trees with hiking routes marked by colored stakes. The first time I saw a real forest was in Scandinavia and that was a lot more intimidating. I did see an adder once, in the boglands in Drenthe. But they’re rare. The wildest thing to encounter in a Dutch forest is a fox or a wild boar. Or fellow humans, usually a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/36 "2021-05-06T15:12:42Z")
Of course, they were also free to just take stuff from helots, who couldn’t object. So hardly like they were stranded in the desert. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/37 "2021-05-06T17:52:04Z")
In my experience of the Netherlands - where are those forests? They certainly are not large, NL has probably the lowest proportion of forest in all of Europe. When driving from NL back to Germany, when I lived there; I knew at once when we were over the border: Trees. And no greenhouses. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/38 "2021-05-06T17:59:28Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > When driving from NL back to Germany, when I lived there; I knew at once when we were over the border: > [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Trees. > > And no greenhouses. 😁 Exactly ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/39 "2021-05-06T18:05:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Europeans seem a lot more free-range than Americans. Aren’t their Icelanders who leave their babies in strollers outside a restaurant in the winter while the parents eat indoors? Ayup. That was going to be my comment: > **[The babies who nap in sub-zero temperatures](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21537988)** > > Would you put your baby or toddler outside in the freezing cold for their lunchtime nap? Many Nordic parents wouldn't give it a second thought. > Daytime temperatures this winter in Stockholm have regularly dropped to -5C (23F) but it’s still common to see children left outside by their parents for a sleep in the pram. > Wander through the snowy city and you’ll see buggies lined up outside coffee shops while parents sip on lattes inside. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465/40 "2021-05-06T18:13:59Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Daytime temperatures this winter in Stockholm have regularly dropped to -5C (23F) but it’s still common to see children left outside by their parents for a sleep in the pram. Same in Denmark AFAIK. Boosts the immune system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dutch-have-a-tradition-of-dropping-their-children-off-in-a-forest-at-night/941465.md?page=3)