# The East Is The Orient. The West Is The Occident. The North and South Are: **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 19, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574 "2016-01-19T14:58:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/1 "2016-01-19T14:58:28Z")
The Borient and the Australient? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/2 "2016-01-19T15:11:24Z")
Sure or boreal and austral if you don’t mind them being adjectives. It’s obsolete now but septentrion meant north and other languages have used meridian or a flavor thereof to mean south but English practically never has. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/3 "2016-01-19T16:12:53Z")
Right. Septentrion was used to refer to boreal regions in English and in French but is now obsolete. Meridien has been used in French. In modern usage, you would just refer to the boreal and austral regions. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/4 "2016-01-19T16:46:03Z")
Not me. I’m sticking with “Antipodean” until I die! ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/5 "2016-01-19T17:06:37Z")
In Spanish, ‘oriente’ and ‘poniente’ are used to designate east and west in street addresses. In about 1870, “este” and “oeste” began to dominate over “oriente” and “poniemte” for Spanish general usage, except for its retention for addresses. Poniente’s etymology derives from the verb ‘poner’ – “to put, or place”. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/6 "2016-01-19T17:46:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Right. Septentrion was used to refer to boreal regions in English and in French but is now obsolete. Meridien has been used in French. > > In modern usage, you would just refer to the boreal and austral regions. “Septentrional” and “méridional” are still adjectives in modern French, though they are indeed kind of old fashioned and not in common use. One exception : “un méridional” or “des méridionaux”, as substantives, to refer to people who come from the south of France notably the Marseilles region. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/7 "2016-01-19T20:05:25Z")
Although in the case of “austral” there’s the problem that when “aust” got borrowed by the early Germanic languages, the meaning somehow shifted from south to east. Aust is in fact the root for the word “east” in English and its equivalent in all the other Germanic languages. So using “austral” as a fancy way to say “southern” would been pretty confusing in a lot of the Germanic languages. Of course it also led to the confusing situation with Australia (meaning “southern land”) and Austria (meaning “eastern land.”) ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/8 "2016-01-19T21:46:57Z")
According to the OED, “orient” and “occident” ultimately derive from words that meant “to rise” and “to fall” in other languages (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > orient: Anglo-Norman _orient, oriente_ and Middle French _orient_ the East , region situated to the east of a given point (beginning of the 12th cent.), the corresponding compass point (first half of the 12th cent.), sparkle of the eyes (1573), lustre of a pearl (1742) and its etymon classical Latin _orient-, oriēns_ the eastern part of the world, the part of the sky in which the sun rises, the east, the rising sun, daybreak, dawn, \*\* use as noun of _oriēns_ rising, eastern, present participle of _orīrī_ to rise\*\* > [@](#): > > occident: Anglo-Norman and Middle French occident west (early 12th cent. in Old French), western part of the world (mid 12th cent.), countries and people of western Europe (1690), and their etymon classical Latin _occident-, occidēns_ (noun) the region in which the sun sets, the west, the western part of the known world or its inhabitants, (adjective) western, uses as noun and adjective respectively of _occidēns_, **present participle of _occidere_ to fall towards, go down, set, die, be ruined** So it may be that the reason there isn’t a parallel construction for “the north” and “the south” is that the sun doesn’t do anything there. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/9 "2016-01-19T21:57:39Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “Septentrional” and “méridional” are still adjectives in modern French, though they are indeed kind of old fashioned and not in common use. One exception : “un méridional” or “des méridionaux”, as substantives, to refer to people who come from the south of France notably the Marseilles region. Similarly, you can use the word “midi,” which normally means “noon,” for south. See, for example, the Gare du Midi in Brussels. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/10 "2016-01-19T22:13:34Z")
> [@RadicalPi](#): > > Similarly, you can use the word “midi,” which normally means “noon,” for south. See, for example, the Gare du Midi in Brussels. Right. Although now that I really think about it, it’s kind of strange. Noon/midday is at the top of the clock face, which should be a symbol of north, right ? I guess the Sun itself is due south when it is noon, hence the expression ? ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/11 "2016-01-20T00:04:11Z")
Um, the north is called the Arctic, and the south is called the Antarctic ?..in English (and most major european languages ?) > [@MikeS](#): > > So it may be that the reason there isn’t a parallel construction for “the north” and “the south” is that the sun doesn’t do anything there. It does do stuff there ! It becomes cancerous and estival, and after a while it turns into a capricorn, and hiburnal. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/12 "2016-01-20T00:29:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Right. Although now that I really think about it, it’s kind of strange. Noon/midday is at the top of the clock face, which should be a symbol of north, right ? I guess the Sun itself is due south when it is noon, hence the expression ? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/13 "2016-01-20T02:15:07Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Not me. I’m sticking with “Antipodean” until I die! Yep, I’ve heard “Antipodeans” used to refer to people coming from Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. Technically it would also refer to South Americans but never heard it used that way. This term has some actual usage. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/14 "2016-01-20T02:38:28Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > In Spanish, ‘oriente’ and ‘poniente’ are used to designate east and west in street addresses. In about 1870, “este” and “oeste” began to dominate over “oriente” and “poniemte” for Spanish general usage, except for its retention for addresses. Poniente’s etymology derives from the verb ‘poner’ – “to put, or place”. Right…“where the sun sets” or “puts itself [down]” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/15 "2016-01-20T02:53:50Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Right…“where the sun sets” or “puts itself [down]” Similarly, French “levant” = [where the sun is] “rising,” i.e. the eastern shore of the Mediterranean. ---
**Author:** ![Jaguars](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaguars/32/5879_2.png) [@Jaguars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaguars)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/16 "2016-01-20T02:57:14Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Yep, I’ve heard “Antipodeans” used to refer to people coming from Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. Technically it would also refer to South Americans but never heard it used that way. This term has some actual usage. Antipodes are places directly across the earth from each other. NZ is Antipodal to Europe, specifically central Spain, which is why they are sometimes are known as Antipodeans. The other main Antipodal landmasses are Argentina and Eastern china. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/17 "2016-01-20T03:04:45Z")
> [@Jaguars](#): > > Antipodes are places directly across the earth from each other. NZ is Antipodal to Europe, specifically central Spain, which is why they are sometimes are known as Antipodeans. The other main Antipodal landmasses are Argentina and Eastern china. Yes technically, but its a fairly common vernacular usage in British english to refer to people from the Southern hemisphere former colonies as “antipodeans” while Australians / Kiwis / South Africans would not refer to UK people that way. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/18 "2016-01-20T03:12:35Z")
Antipode is also the name of the longest-running “radical” human-political geography journal – Marxist/feminist/queer/subaltern/post-colonial and the like. Clever title, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/19 "2016-01-20T07:24:47Z")
> [@Jaguars](#): > > Antipodes are places directly across the earth from each other. NZ is Antipodal to Europe, specifically central Spain, which is why they are sometimes are known as Antipodeans. The other main Antipodal landmasses are Argentina and Eastern china. Yeah. ‘Antipodes’ just means (pretty much literally) ‘the opposite of where we’re standing’. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2016, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574/20 "2016-01-20T07:35:42Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Yep, I’ve heard “Antipodeans” used to refer to people coming from Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. Technically it would also refer to South Americans but never heard it used that way. This term has some actual usage. Never really heard it used to refer to South Africans, myself, just ANZACS. [Various](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/antipodean) [dictionaries](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/antipodean) [seem](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antipodean) to [concur](http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/antipodean). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-east-is-the-orient-the-west-is-the-occident-the-north-and-south-are/743574.md?page=2)