# The Economics of Trolling, the SDMB, and Moderator Decisions. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474 "2019-11-15T03:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/181 "2019-11-16T22:19:55Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The metric is glaringly apparent, a term I use ironically. > > There seems to me to be no question that the number of posters who are women and/or people of color has declined in recent years. Forums like Elections and GD are almost universally white men.\* Even GQ and CS appear to have only rare appearances by anyone who is not a white male. {Devil’s Advocate} Are there statistics available that show these declines as percentages of the total decline in board participation? Is it possible that there’s been relatively level declines in all demographics of posters and there’s just a lot more white men online and on The Dope in general? {Devil’s Advocate} ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/182 "2019-11-16T23:22:43Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > And just how did you pull that from a few lines of a rather large and detailed post? I don’t get that **JC** despises or holds anything in contempt; just that he’s trying to enlighten us. Fght ignorance so to speak. Isn’t that sort of Job1 just a little ahead of maintaining order? 😕 Maybe I’m the only one that sees it–but when a mod calls the forum he moderates “yell -fests” and thinks that the only reason people come there is to “yell at each other,” and even puts the word “discussion” in ironiquotes, it doesn’t look to me like he has much respect for the folks he’s moderating. YMMV. I’ve noticed for years that some of the mods encourage among each other a culture of disdain for posters. It seems self-perpetuating. I suspect JC didn’t become a moderator with that attitude, but may have adopted it as a cultural norm. Fortunately not all mods have. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/183 "2019-11-16T23:35:36Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > {Devil’s Advocate} Are there statistics available that show these declines as percentages of the total decline in board participation? Is it possible that there’s been relatively level declines in all demographics of posters and there’s just a lot more white men online and on The Dope in general? {Devil’s Advocate} [voice of reason]Have there been many instances, including whole threads, of women and people of color loudly decrying the misogyny and bigotry and intolerance here and stating their intention to leave, and then leaving? Most certainly. Have there been any equivalent number, less alone percentage, of white men doing so? No. Can any reasoning person believe that the decline is merely a statistical phenomenon? Oh, hell no.[/voice of reason] ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/184 "2019-11-17T01:34:06Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [voice of reason]Have there been many instances, including whole threads, of women and people of color loudly decrying the misogyny and bigotry and intolerance here and stating their intention to leave, and then leaving? Most certainly. Have there been any equivalent number, less alone percentage, of white men doing so? No. Can any reasoning person believe that the decline is merely a statistical phenomenon? Oh, hell no.[/voice of reason] I’m just asking if there are any statistics. I’m not disagreeing that this board can be and has been less than hospitable to minority perspectives and viewpoints. Im only questioning to what extent this played (plays) a role in the declining participation of these minority posters. After all, just because white men arent leaving in the same fashion, for the same reasons, etc doesnt necessarily mean they arent leaving. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/185 "2019-11-17T02:07:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > But you argue that HD posting here is conducive to the sites financial viability. I’m interested in seeing the financial analysis you used to derive this conclusion. I’m not rendering a judgment on any individual poster’s contributions, his and yours included. It seems logical to me that sites such as this suffer when controversy gives way to mind-numbing uniformity.\* \*not to mention the lack of t-shirts. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/186 "2019-11-17T03:20:17Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’m just asking if there are any statistics. I’m not disagreeing that this board can be and has been less than hospitable to minority perspectives and viewpoints. Im only questioning to what extent this played (plays) a role in the declining participation of these minority posters. After all, just because white men arent leaving in the same fashion, for the same reasons, etc doesnt necessarily mean they arent leaving. There are no statistics on demographics. There never have been. We have no way of knowing what the demographics are of active members or of active posters or lurkers or anything else. Everything is perception. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/187 "2019-11-17T08:35:17Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’m not disagreeing that this board can be and has been less than hospitable to minority perspectives and viewpoints. Im only questioning to what extent this played (plays) a role in the declining participation of these minority posters. I haven’t left, but I no longer pay, and won’t until things get a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/188 "2019-11-17T12:36:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Maybe I’m the only one that sees it–but when a mod calls the forum he moderates “yell -fests” and thinks that the only reason people come there is to “yell at each other,” and even puts the word “discussion” in ironiquotes, it doesn’t look to me like he has much respect for the folks he’s moderating. YMMV. > > I’ve noticed for years that some of the mods encourage among each other a culture of disdain for posters. It seems self-perpetuating. I suspect JC didn’t become a moderator with that attitude, but may have adopted it as a cultural norm. Fortunately not all mods have. You’re not the only one seeing this, and it’s a very disturbing trend indeed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/189 "2019-11-17T22:11:10Z")
It appears some posters here really dont like people who disagree with them or posters who hold opinion on the opposite side. Think how sad a Debate would be: Poster A “I think xxx is very bad!” B. Yes, I agree. C. I concur. D. You are right! E. Absolutely! boooooring. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/190 "2019-11-17T22:21:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It appears some posters here really dont like people who disagree with them or posters who hold opinion on the opposite side. > > Think how sad a Debate would be: > > Poster A “I think xxx is very bad!” > > B. Yes, I agree. > > C. I concur. > > D. You are right! > > E. Absolutely! > boooooring. To be fair, there is a difference between disagreeing in good faith and sealioning/trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/191 "2019-11-18T01:03:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It appears some posters here really dont like people who disagree with them or posters who hold opinion on the opposite side. > > Think how sad a Debate would be: > > Poster A “I think xxx is very bad!” > > B. Yes, I agree. > > C. I concur. > > D. You are right! > > E. Absolutely! > boooooring. No, what we are trying to avoid is, A. Here is my thought B. I disagree with points 1, 2, and 3 you made for the following reasons C. L4wl l3Ts V1cT7mBle3m SuM R4p V1ct1M$ y4lL!!11! D. Let me sidetrack this debate with my own thoughts about a topic that’s barely tangentially related but that I derail every thread by talking about E. B00bies! The Dope has, in more recent times, actually addressed E. C and D, not so much ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/192 "2019-11-18T01:21:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t believe that’s a common refrain from me, and even if it were, the SDMB isn’t “the government”. It is a stultifyingly common Republican argument. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/193 "2019-11-18T01:32:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well if I were the admin I’d suspend posters over extortion. See, you don’t understand the terrible precedent that capitulation sets. The starving artist ban that happened, in part due to the same bullshit argument, only resulted in a continuation of this so-called very unique approach to administrative/moderation manipulation. Did you pick up the word “extortion” because it’s the current (sane) c/w on “what potus is credibly accused of”? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/194 "2019-11-18T03:04:47Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Did you pick up the word “extortion” because it’s the current (sane) c/w on “what potus is credibly accused of”? What? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/195 "2019-11-18T03:04:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > To be fair, there is a difference between disagreeing in good faith and sealioning/trolling. Yeah, the Mods already mentioned 'sealioning" and if someone is trolling, you report them. See? Just because you disagree, that doesnt make them a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/196 "2019-11-18T04:27:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, the Mods already mentioned 'sealioning" and if someone is trolling, you report them. See? > > Just because you disagree, that doesnt make them a troll. Yes, that’s why I never report them when I disagree but only report them when they are trolling. If you think they never troll, you’re not paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/197 "2019-11-18T05:21:34Z")
What does a board like this cost to keep running? I would assume the moderators are volunteer and unpaid. I’ve rented servers that were pretty high performance (4 CPU cores at 3 ghz, no monthly bandwidth limit) for $45 a month. Don’t remember what my disk allocation was. 22 million posts at 5 kilobytes a post is only 110 gigabytes. I would assume there is DDoS protection as well as licensing costs for the board’s software and moderation tools. So at the low end it’s a mere $600 a year, in reality it’s probably several thousand. Practically a hobbyist project. Does anyone have more realistic numbers? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/198 "2019-11-18T12:56:06Z")
No, I don’t have better numbers, except to add that you’d need a business ISP with a fast upstream and one fixed IP at a minimum, so probably several thousand a year just on that. That’s all assuming you can manage it yourself rather than outsourcing to a hosting service. What I wanted to add was that I do know of fairly prominent sites and discussion forums that are essentially one-man operations with a team of volunteer mods, so the economics are pretty small potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/199 "2019-11-18T14:18:58Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > What I want to communicate here is that, from available data, the belief that the SDMB is primarily about debate and discussion - at least as represented by GD and Elections - is a fallacy. It’s a pretension held among those posters who post there frequently…a sort of self-elevating belief structure that’s not congruous with the facts available. Putting that belief to bed should be helpful for all of us. > > If we wanted to maximize revenue - as moderators - we’d do everything we could to encourage more cat pictures and news-of-the-day threads. You’re correct that it’s primarily a pretension, but it’s a pretension which influences reality. One selling point of the SDMB as compared to other cat-picture MBs is that at the SDMB you can primarily post about cat pictures while pretending to yourself that you’re “fighting ignorance”. So those forums add value in that respect, even if they have relatively low levels of actual participation. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/200 "2019-11-18T14:26:24Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, I don’t have better numbers, except to add that you’d need a business ISP with a fast upstream and one fixed IP at a minimum, so probably several thousand a year just on that. That’s all assuming you can manage it yourself rather than outsourcing to a hosting service. What I wanted to add was that I do know of fairly prominent sites and discussion forums that are essentially one-man operations with a team of volunteer mods, so the economics are pretty small potatoes. For $45 a month I had that. It was a server hosted in a Dallas data center. Domain names are another small cost, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474.md?page=11)