# The Economics of Trolling, the SDMB, and Moderator Decisions. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474 "2019-11-15T03:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/21 "2019-11-15T14:28:30Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > It’s not a matter of disagreement - it’s a matter of a poster creating a toxic environment, a poster who refuses to argue in good faith. > Certainly, there are others to engage with. Does that mean that we must suffer the presence of this virulently unpleasant…person? > I keep seeing mods saying that this is not a democracy, and that’s fine. But I think that the mods should also pay attention to what the posters are saying about their conduct, and the conduct of other posters. When one poster has managed to inspire a [33 page, 1600+ post thread reviling him or her,](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=846268) I think the mods should take notice. There is certainly more than ‘disagreement’ involved there. A lot of complaints take the form of asking HD a question or directing comments to him and him responding. Then people don’t like the answer and argh now are so mad must keep asking questions because if you have just the right question he will see the error of his ways, but no, argh more answers that are disliked! That must be trolling! I disagree. People continue to engage and then cry foul when a person responds. We don’t police bad arguments, or disfavored opinions. Everyone is able to participate in discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/22 "2019-11-15T14:50:35Z")
Although I won’t speak to the moderation in the political forums since I don’t mod there. To suggest that we should mod differently according to membership status is ridiculous. I’ve never even glanced at someone’s status before modding and never will. I can’t think of a worse way of doing things. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/23 "2019-11-15T15:22:03Z")
Oh, you mean like this totally reasonable non-trolling post by fellow Pinniped **Octopus**? Because that’s not a response to anyone, that’s just a free gift. In response to a thread about a Chinese man who was set on fire by protestors: > [@Man set on fire for disagreeing with protesters - China](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-set-on-fire-for-disagreeing-with-protesters-china/843468/2): > > Was the person a fascist? Eta: this was in response to Bond’s last post. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/24 "2019-11-15T15:28:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > A lot of complaints take the form of asking HD a question or directing comments to him and him responding. Then people don’t like the answer and argh now are so mad must keep asking questions because if you have just the right question he will see the error of his ways, but no, argh more answers that are disliked! That must be trolling! I disagree. The behavior described, aimed at **HD** , sounds a lot like sea lioning, as far as I understand the term. Persistence, asking for cites on everything, even opinions, dismissing answers as insufficient or non-responsive, following the poster around and re-engaging over and over - everything but the fake politeness. Especially not the fake politeness. You have said (and I agree, for whatever that’s worth) that the alleged 6 insults aren’t insults. Now, in ATMB, we get people referring to him as virulently unpleasant and questioning his personhood, as well as > [@](#): > > The STM Reader, LLC, and the SDMB moderators are willing to lose paying members to keep guests such as Ditka… Starving Artist… God knows how many other assholes… I don’t know how to parse this other than “Ditka, Starving Artist, and others, are assholes”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/25 "2019-11-15T15:42:46Z")
Just a quick preventative intervention, here. This thread will not turn into another long-term debate about the definition of ‘sea-lioning’. I hope that’s clear. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/26 "2019-11-15T15:43:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m pretty sure it’s politics, not economics. Like nearly everywhere else there’s a double standard where right wingers can lie, insult people and ignore the rules while anyone else who did the same would be punished. And anyone who argues against them too hard is _also_ punished. . Thank you for this. Given how often we are accused of bias by right wing posters, a post like this is an affirmation that the moderation is even handed. Being accused of bias by both the far right and the far left is a pretty good indication of a lack of bias. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/27 "2019-11-15T16:02:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Thank you for this. Given how often we are accused of bias by right wing posters, a post like this is an affirmation that the moderation is even handed. Being accused of bias by both the far right and the far left is a pretty good indication of a lack of bias. Because it is impossible that one side is correct and the other side isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/28 "2019-11-15T16:03:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Thank you for this. Given how often we are accused of bias by right wing posters, a post like this is an affirmation that the moderation is even handed. Being accused of bias by both the far right and the far left is a pretty good indication of a lack of bias. Seriously? SERIOUSLY? [This is the Straight Dope right now.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/08/05/us/05onfire1_xp/05onfire1_xp-superJumbo-v2.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp) We get thread after thread after thread complaining about how women and LGBT people just straight up DO. NOT. FEEL. WELCOME. HERE, and about how fed up we all are with people who are very clearly not here for honest discussion. And there’s no question that this board is dying because of it – go ahead, protest this point. It’s not worth arguing – anyone with eyes can see it for themselves. Yet you pat yourself on the back because hey, maybe women and LGBT people are leaving, but we’re pissing off the Right too – after all, [they can’t just straight up say that black culture makes students dumb anymore,](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=881909)[they have to be a hair more subtle if they’re going to derail every single thread to their pet topic,](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882655) [and they can no longer be quite as obviously racist.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=879524) But hey – both sides do it, so everything is hunky-dory! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/29 "2019-11-15T16:10:42Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Congratulations, SDMB for helping spread the whistleblower’s alleged name! Even quoted by a mod, way to go. That brings us in line with the conspiracy sites that would, rather than defend Trump, bring danger to the whistleblower. I feel sick about that, and it’s no exaggeration. Oh, his name was already out there? Weak fucking shit. > [@Bone](#): > > There was a thread started in October asking who the whistleblower was. Zero reports. HD posts a name that is already in the public sphere and there are a dozen reports. Joe Klein also wrote Primary Colors. And **HurricaneDitka** was not the first to post the name. At least three other posters posted it on 11/10. (There was a previous mention, but not directly as the whistleblower.) **HD** initially (on 11/13) just linked to one of these previous mentions along with other sources for the name. I do not see any reports of these earlier mentions, or requests that they be redacted. Since then at least eight other posters have quoted the name. At this point, given how widespread it is (Google give 185,000 hits on the name + whistleblower), I think we would have to shut down all discussion of the matter to avoid people becoming aware of the name. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/30 "2019-11-15T16:12:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Because it is impossible that one side is correct and the other side isn’t? > [@Babale](#): > > Seriously? Thank you once again for demonstrating my point. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/31 "2019-11-15T16:15:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Thank you once again for demonstrating my point. This sounds about as effective an argument as a puppy-molester saying “both sides hate me – I must be doing something right!”. I’ll note that I love the Dope and think the mods do the best they can (while still making occasional mistakes). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/32 "2019-11-15T16:19:45Z")
Mods, please go back and read the OP. Closely. I’m in full agreement with you that citing ignorance is not an insult and is the proper way to characterize a post. But HD used the word “stupid.” JohnT even underlined it. Stupid is the bottom-line insult that everyone is told not to use. How are you skipping over it? That’s the minor problem. I understand that you give right-wingers a lot of leeway to keep some semblance of even-handedness on a board that is increasingly furious at the right. That doesn’t change the rules. I’ve reported HD’s trolling several times. Other people say they reported him multiple times. Why do we keep doing so? Not because we want to purge the board of all conservative opinion but because he is clearly and repeatedly **breaking the rules**. You have to know this by now. Colibri’s blithe dismissal of the complaints about trolling is badly mis-informed due to his own ignorance. I assume I can use those terms because those were also underlined and deemed passable. The question that brings up is straightforward: can I also say it was stupid and wrong? Is that a personal insult or not? We can’t know now. That’s, um, wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/33 "2019-11-15T16:21:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Thank you once again for demonstrating my point. Is it your point that maintaining a false equivalency instead of weighing the merits of each side is the way to go? If nobody disagreed with your statement would that also support it? BTW, I just noticed this: > [@](#): > > Being accused of bias by both the far right and the far left… Far left? Those are the only ones complaining? Or do you consider all those who complain about this subject to be “far left”? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/34 "2019-11-15T16:26:03Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Thank you once again for demonstrating my point. You know, when I first saw this post, it really pissed me off. “We’re losing members! We’re losing revenue! The board is gonna die unless you guys step up! What’s that? You have issues with the way things are going? No, fuck you, you’re a far left crazy radical and your criticism flatters us!” But honestly? It’s not surprising that the moderation would treat us like this here. They’ve been doing it for years. So fuck it… I don’t have the energy to be mad. I’m just sad that this is where the Dope ended up. I will say that I don’t think that’s an appropriate response from a mod to a complaint in ATMB, but hey, I’m not a paying customer, so fuck me, right? I can’t take my $8 and go home, so no one gives a shit if I stop posting here. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/35 "2019-11-15T16:26:35Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Mods, please go back and read the OP. Closely. I’m in full agreement with you that citing ignorance is not an insult and is the proper way to characterize a post. But HD used the word “stupid.” JohnT even underlined it. Stupid is the bottom-line insult that everyone is told not to use. How are you skipping over it? You think calling an analogy “stupid” should be a warnable offense? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/36 "2019-11-15T16:29:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You think calling an analogy “stupid” should be a warnable offense? By my reading, the quotes in the OP don’t qualify as warnable, except for maybe the “his own ignorance” one which might be borderline (the rest seem like characterizations of arguments, and in my understanding, negative characterizations of arguments have generally been allowed). But there are numerous other posts in that thread that did seem warnable, to me – sealioning, egregious misogyny, and what appeared to me to be blatant trolling. But the OP’s “weak sauce” post was also, quite specifically, a characterization of arguments. So I’m not sure why that was warned but the other ones weren’t. Maybe because it was broader and not aimed at a specific argument? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/37 "2019-11-15T16:29:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And lastly, I don’t particularly want to “out” the whistleblower. I’m of the opinion that that has already been done long before I ever typed his name here, and this collective pretending people are doing as if it hasn’t happened is absurdly silly. I spent a few minutes last week looking through my news sources for the name, just out of sheer curiosity. To my astonishment and relief, all of the media I checked declined to name the whistleblower. Everyone was saying, we _think_ we know who it is but cannot independently verify the identity, so we won’t report it. That’s a good thing (remember “Bag Man” Salah Barhoum?). My takeaway from a Fox segment was that it is unethical to name the whistleblower just because, even if it is verified, and possibly illegal (libel) to name him or her without being 100% sure. For the record, you are the first person I’ve seen “out” the whistleblower. Whether you intended to or not, it is only because of you that I have any sort of name to put on the whistleblower report. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/38 "2019-11-15T16:31:47Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Just a quick preventative intervention, here. > > This thread will not turn into another long-term debate about the definition of ‘sea-lioning’. > > I hope that’s clear. [This certainly isn’t.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21973996&postcount=10) Care to explain why _you_ referred to a specific post as “sea-lioning”, which goes specifically against your colleague’s instructions, but did not issue a warning? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/39 "2019-11-15T16:32:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But there are numerous other posts in that thread that did seem warnable, to me – sealioning, egregious misogyny, and what appeared to me to be blatant trolling. My guess is the moderators do not see the same “sealioning, misogyny, and/or blatant trolling” that you and other posters see. I myself rarely see the problems with a lot of posts that some people deem “trolling” or “misogynistic” or whatever because many of them are simply “that poster disagrees with me! He’s trolling!” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474/40 "2019-11-15T16:34:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But the OP’s “weak sauce” post was also, quite specifically, a characterization of arguments. So I’m not sure why that was warned but the other ones weren’t. Maybe because it was broader and not aimed at a specific argument? I would agree that seems like a bad warning. Perhaps it was the “generalized nature” of the insult. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-economics-of-trolling-the-sdmb-and-moderator-decisions/843474.md?page=3)