# The education situation in Alabama and Mississippi… **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647 "2012-03-13T14:11:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/1 "2012-03-13T14:11:23Z")
Was browsing a few news sites and can across this link to some recent polling: [Public Policy Polling – Alabama and Mississippi](http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/other-notes-from-alabama-and-mississippi.html) A few choice findings from the above link: > [@](#): > > _In Mississippi only 12% of voters think Obama’s a Christian to 52% who think he’s a Muslim > In Alabama just 14% think Obama’s a Christian to 45% who think he’s a Muslim_ Is this simply a reflection of the power of misinformation dolled out by Fox et. al, or something deeper? > [@](#): > > \*Alabama’s pretty much on board with interracial marriage, with 67% of voters thinking it should be legal to 21% who think it should not be. > > There’s still some skepticism in Mississippi though- only 54% of voters think it should be legal, while 29% believe it should be illegal\*. Got to ask – why is this question even being asked in polls any more?! Does anyone agree that 21% of people being against interracial marriage actually sounds like a state is now ‘on board’ with it? Over one fifth of the state still oppose it, so hardly reaching enlightened status as yet. Is there any possibility that those replying to this poll mistook the question for one about 'same sex marriage’ and repeated the ‘against’ mantra they’ve heard so many times, or is this poll really a true reflection of those State’s values? > [@](#): > > _In Alabama only 26% of voters believe in it [evolution], while 60% do not. > In Mississippi just 22% believe in it [evolution], while 66% do not._ This is another sad indictment but not too dissimilar to other places. [I do wonder though that 12% of people somehow managed to not even comprehend the question enough to give an answer.] So, is this typical, or a polling aberration? Why are these two states particularly falling behind in terms of educational standards, or is this a local state matter where they have implicitly _chosen_ to have an education system based on particular tenets of faith rather than fact? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/2 "2012-03-13T14:23:15Z")
The poll was not of all voters in Alabama and Mississippi. It was a poll of Republican voters in Alabama and Mississippi. More narrowly, it could be (I am not sure) a poll of likely Republican voters in the primary. Regardless, as the population goes from the all Americans to all Alabamans or Mississippians to all Republicans in these states, you are going to see a rapid rise in racism. The questions and the responses clearly show the voters to be racist and ignorant. Hardly surprising given the circumstances under which the poll was taken. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/3 "2012-03-13T14:49:05Z")
Right. They took a poll of possibly the most racist and ignorant sub-population in the country and determined that they are racist and ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/4 "2012-03-13T15:01:30Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > They took a poll of possibly the most racist and ignorant sub-population in the country and determined that they are racist and ignorant. Okay, that’s fair enough in terms of the results they found. I guess my wider question is: why is there a large sub-section of the populations of both these states that have a willingness to believe / espouse this kind of opinion whereas people in other state’s seemingly do not? What causes this bubble of racism and ignorance here more so than in other equally conservative or religious places - or indeed, is it not so uncommon? Is it a generational thing that will pass in 15-20 years as the older population dies off, or is it ingrained in the systems and teachings of each state to a point where this kind of anti-intellectualism will persist for much longer? Disclaimer: I’m not from the US; I don’t know the particular population make-up / demographics of either state other than a very basic outline history of each with regard to formation, slavery, civil rights etc.. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/5 "2012-03-13T15:18:07Z")
Slavery and the civil war is certainly a big part of it. Alabama and Mississippi were both members of the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/6 "2012-03-13T15:31:40Z")
I think lots of people will say that Obama is a Muslim, not because they really think he’s a Muslim, but because they hate him. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/7 "2012-03-13T15:44:25Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I think lots of people will say that Obama is a Muslim, not because they really think he’s a Muslim, but because they hate him. I’m not sure. Because the super-conservative people of the GOP base are moved by conspiracy theories: AGW is a plot by scientists to… do something…, Obama wants to raise gas rates to… do something…, FEMA re-education camps are being prepped for the coming civil unrest, death panels, Obama is trying to destroy the military, and so on. They believe utterly stupid stuff, because a lot of them are utterly stupid and have no ability to critically examine things and evaluate how unlikely a claim is. And since it’s on point, here is a video where _Nancy Pilosi’s daughter, working for Bill Mahr_ interviewed some of the GOP base: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciuGxdMuQLg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciuGxdMuQLg) ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/8 "2012-03-13T16:26:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > They believe utterly stupid stuff, because a lot of them are utterly stupid and have no ability to critically examine things and evaluate how unlikely a claim is. But what is the root cause of their inabilities? There really can’t be an intrinsic genetic component (inability to learn) to this perceived ignorance, as [_I imagine_] the population of southern states is effectively made up of the same smorgasbord of immigrants that form most of the US, give or take localised ethnic variations. So that pretty much leaves us with either poor teaching (not being given assistance in learning), lack of access to schooling (no opportunity to learn) or wilful ignorance (unwillingness to learn). I see ( only from [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi#Education), but I assume uncontroversial ) that the national average for school leavers in the US who sit the SAT test is 45%, but is only 3% in Mississippi – 50th from 50 states in academic achievement. Although, to be fair, the 3% who do sit the SAT do much better than average, nationally. They are 44th out of 50 states in education funding which I assume explains it partially – but can the rest be put down to a ‘perpetuation by parenting’ issue that will continue indefinitely until the cycle is, somehow, broken? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/9 "2012-03-13T16:35:38Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > And since it’s on point, here is a video where _Nancy Pilosi’s daughter, working for Bill Mahr_ interviewed some of the GOP base: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciuGxdMuQLg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciuGxdMuQLg) Damn. I know there are people like this. I’ve encountered people like this. Even so, every time I see it, I’m in shock and disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/10 "2012-03-13T16:39:02Z")
**Aro** , I do think that “perpetuation by parenting”, as you put it, is a large part of it. We’re talking about people who are skeptical of knowledge and education. Hell, “skeptical” is to weak a word. They are outright _hostile_ towards knowledge and education. They are proud of their ignorance. So naturally, they want the same for their children. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/11 "2012-03-13T16:43:46Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > But what is the root cause of their inabilities? > > There really can’t be an intrinsic genetic component (inability to learn) to this perceived ignorance, as [_I imagine_] the population of southern states is effectively made up of the same smorgasbord of immigrants that form most of the US, give or take localised ethnic variations. So that pretty much leaves us with either poor teaching (not being given assistance in learning), lack of access to schooling (no opportunity to learn) or wilful ignorance (unwillingness to learn). > > I see ( only from [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi#Education), but I assume uncontroversial ) that the national average for school leavers in the US who sit the SAT test is 45%, but is only 3% in Mississippi – 50th from 50 states in academic achievement. Although, to be fair, the 3% who do sit the SAT do much better than average, nationally. They are 44th out of 50 states in education funding which I assume explains it partially – but can the rest be put down to a ‘perpetuation by parenting’ issue that will continue indefinitely until the cycle is, somehow, broken? I certainly assume it isn’t genetic. I would assume that poverty is the primary problem. I grew up poor in Hawaii and a lot of poor people take little interest in things that don’t affect their everyday lives. Couple that with a cultural adherence to GOP dogma (which they stick to religiously, since Johnson “betrayed” them by enacting civil rights legislation), _that elites think they’re better than you_, and I think it builds an anti-intellectualism that has coated the south. So, poverty, racism and adherence to particularly anti-education GOP dogma. Now I’m not saying that the south is full of nothing but racist ignoramuses. But they aren’t running short of them either. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/12 "2012-03-13T16:46:19Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Damn. I know there are people like this. I’ve encountered people like this. Even so, every time I see it, I’m in shock and disbelief. When I saw the video it made me want to cry. It feels like watching a loved one drink himself to death. These are my countrymen and I want them to prosper, not spiral into self-destruction. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/13 "2012-03-13T17:10:18Z")
It should be noted that it’s not just about poverty and lack of education. Take South Carolina’s new Lieutenant Governor, for example. [http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/13/443636/lieutenant-governor-glenn-mcconnell/?mobile=nc](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/13/443636/lieutenant-governor-glenn-mcconnell/?mobile=nc) > [@](#): > > The Republican lawmaker is perhaps best known for his unapologetic embrace of the Confederacy, grabbing national headlines in 2010 when he appeared in photos dressed as a confederate general — posing with two people presumably imitating slaves: > > McConnell is a member Sons of Confederate Veterans, Secession Camp #4, as he proudly lists on his official bio. He also owns a store that sells confederate memorabilia. > > Asked in a 1999 interview on ABC’s Nightline what he thinks when he sees the Confederate Flag, he replied, “I see honor, courage, valor. I see the red, white and blue and the blood of sacrifice that ran through that battle and the people that carried that flag. I don’t see black and white. I don’t see racism.” ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/14 "2012-03-13T17:56:08Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Damn. I know there are people like this. I’ve encountered people like this. Even so, every time I see it, I’m in shock and disbelief. I have relatives like this. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/15 "2012-03-13T18:03:19Z")
Anybody holding opinions different from yours is by definition uneducated? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/16 "2012-03-13T18:07:20Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Anybody holding opinions different from yours is by definition uneducated? No, there is such a thing as an educated contrary opinion. I’m just not seeing a lot of it in the polling about Obama’s faith. In my book, if you think Obama’s a Muslim, you’re an idiot, and if it makes a difference to you, you’re an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/17 "2012-03-13T18:07:44Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Anybody holding opinions different from yours is by definition uneducated? Opinions are things like, “I enjoy pie!” Having different opinions is fine. The trouble is holding different facts. There are only one set of facts in the universe, and many of them are unambiguous. If your ideology forces you to hold a set of false facts, then you’re probably uneducated. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/18 "2012-03-13T18:15:15Z")
Voter ignorance is appalling but it is not suprising. Voter ignorance is rational since it takes effort to educate one self about issues but it does not give any benefit to the voter. It will not make any difference in these people’s lives whether they believe Obama is a muslim or a Christian, so they do not seek out the knowledge. One person’s vote counts for so little and the feedback mechanism is so bad that there is no actual difference between voting for a horrible candidate and voting for a perfect one. Thus irrationality rules. Furthermore political engagement is not a rational act but a statement of affiliation. These people know what team they are on and so think bad things about people on the other team. You can see the same type of thing here in the Santorum threads. ---
**Author:** ![starwarsfreek42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@starwarsfreek42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starwarsfreek42)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/19 "2012-03-13T18:18:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Right. They took a poll of possibly the most racist and ignorant sub-population in the country and determined that they are racist and ignorant. > [@davidm](#): > > Slavery and the civil war is certainly a big part of it. Alabama and Mississippi were both members of the Confederacy. > [@Lemur866](#): > > I think lots of people will say that Obama is a Muslim, not because they really think he’s a Muslim, but because they hate him. All of these statements are true. I don’t know about Mississippi, but I live here in Alabama and I’ve gone around for weeks at a time asking people questions like these. My own little social experiment. The vast majority are republican creationists, Church of Christ, Baptist or Methodist. I’ve encountered exactly one person who believes in evolution. My own mother believes that Obama was born in Kenya and he’s a Muslim, and also that black people shouldn’t be allowed to marry white people. I don’t think the problem is education, necessarily, because I was taught evolution in an integrated public school right here in Alabama. I think it’s willful ignorance and racism. People want to be against Obama because he is black, but they can’t admit that it’s because he’s black because even other racists will look down on them. Racism is widespread, but it’s less socially acceptable than it was in the past so it’s closeted. But, I live in a fairly progressive little pocket, so maybe I don’t have a good sense of Alabama’s attitude as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647/20 "2012-03-13T18:20:03Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It should be noted that it’s not just about poverty and lack of education. Take South Carolina’s new Lieutenant Governor, for example. > > [http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/13/443636/lieutenant-governor-glenn-mcconnell/?mobile=nc](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/13/443636/lieutenant-governor-glenn-mcconnell/?mobile=nc) > [@](#): > > Asked in a 1999 interview on ABC’s Nightline what he thinks when he sees the Confederate Flag, he replied, “I see honor, courage, valor. I see the red, white and blue and the blood of sacrifice that ran through that battle and the people that carried that flag. I don’t see black and white. I don’t see racism.” Colbert says this kind of stuff in character - I didn’t realize people were stupid enough to say it for real. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-situation-in-alabama-and-mississippi/615647.md?page=2)