# The Education System **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253 "2003-08-01T00:17:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![\_O\_o\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/9d8465/32.png) [@\_O\_o\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_O_o_1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/21 "2003-08-01T05:23:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grey \* > \*\*Does no one read my stuff? šŸ˜‰ > Which, sad to say, is an actually definition and not the dross to gold O\_o thinks it is. \*\* ::sigh:: \*I knowā€¦ Youā€™re correct; I, however, was trying to alchemize (I knowā€¦ that usually involves chemicals) the word ā€œarticulateā€ into what it would mean regarding message board communication. \* ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/22 "2003-08-01T05:23:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grey \* > \*\*Does no one read my stuff? šŸ˜‰ > Which, sad to say, is an actually definition and not the dross to gold O\_o thinks it is. \*\* I got it and meant to mention it but forgot in my last post. Thanks thoughā€¦while my semantic two-step may have been off I am glad to know I was in the right arena at least. ---
**Author:** ![\_O\_o\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/9d8465/32.png) [@\_O\_o\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_O_o_1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/23 "2003-08-01T05:25:39Z")
Hehā€¦ this board is but another circle jerk isnā€™t itā€¦ =/ ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/24 "2003-08-01T05:28:03Z")
Weā€™ve got a potential jerk, now who wants to be the circle? ---
**Author:** ![\_O\_o\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/9d8465/32.png) [@\_O\_o\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_O_o_1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/25 "2003-08-01T05:31:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*Youā€™re right. This silly dance of semantics with you is wearing thin. It is my mistake for indulging you. \*\* Indulging me? You brought it up. lol. wow. > [@](#): > > \*\*I did indeed respond to your original post. Your response to that post was brief, nitpicky and devoid of substance. \*\* Againā€¦ instead of telling me what it wasā€¦ tell him HOW it was (devoid of substance). Should be easy; being that it isā€¦ devoid of substance. > [@](#): > > \*\*Your original post was more of a rant likewise devoid of anything worthy of serious debate. \*\* Againā€¦ Instead of telling me WHAT is was. Tell me HOW it is that. This is getting ridiculous. > [@](#): > > \*\*The premise that our education system in the US is in need of help is mostly without question either here on the SDMB or anywhere else such discussions come up. The devil is in the details. The debate is over what can or should be done to correct the problem. You have provided none of that. \*\* To define a problem does not = to define a solution. This post was merely a recognition of a problem. Nothing more. > [@](#): > > \*\*Feel free to continue your internet imitation of the crazy guy standing on a corner ranting at everyone and no one at the same time. \*\* Ah wit. Always comes to that with you people. No substance. Just sexy insults. Whatever works for ya. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/26 "2003-08-01T05:32:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by (O\_o) \* > \*\*Hehā€¦ this board is but another circle jerk isnā€™t itā€¦ =/ \*\* If ā€˜not agreeingā€™ with **O\_o** equals a circle jerk then I guess so. What were you expecting? A bunch of ā€œAtta-boysā€ and ā€œYou tell them **O\_o**!ā€ Clearly you arenā€™t prepared to defend your assertions or even so much as expand upon and clarify them. Donā€™t play with the big dogs if you arenā€™t prepared to piss in the tall grass. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/27 "2003-08-01T05:36:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by (O\_o) \* > To define a problem does not = to define a solution. > > This post was merely a recognition of a problem. Nothing more. Okā€¦the education system in the US has problems. Congratulationsā€¦for a forum called Great Debates I donā€™t see a debate here (unless someone wishes to chime in that the education system is just fine as it is). Thread over. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/28 "2003-08-01T05:36:38Z")
If this was just a rant about the education system, then perhaps **The BBQ Pit** would be a better forum. In this forum, we debate stuff. So, what is the assertion that you want to debate? That the education system is bad? That the teachers havenā€™t lived enough outside in the world? That the education system should focus more on social skills rather than intellectual knowledge? That the university system is a racket? Obviously, we cannot debate all of these assertions at once. Which one would you like to focus on? ---
**Author:** ![\_O\_o\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/9d8465/32.png) [@\_O\_o\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_O_o_1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/29 "2003-08-01T05:38:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*If ā€˜not agreeingā€™ with **O\_o** equals a circle jerk then I guess so. \*\* Thank Jebus it doesnā€™t. > [@](#): > > \*\*What were you expecting? \*\* A mental circle jerk. > [@](#): > > \*\*A bunch of ā€œAtta-boysā€ and ā€œYou tell them **O\_o**!ā€ \*\* No; those boards are just as ridiculous. > [@](#): > > \*\*Clearly you arenā€™t prepared to defend your assertions or even so much as expand upon and clarify them. \*\* Should I take it upon my own to just ā€¦ write more? Iā€™m merely waiting for questions. Debate. > [@](#): > > \*\*Donā€™t play with the big dogs if you arenā€™t prepared to piss in the tall grass. \*\* HAHAā€¦ thereā€™s that elitism I was waiting for. I knew this forum would be fun. Does anyone here even LIKE George W. Bush? LOL Circle jerk. ---
**Author:** ![\_O\_o\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/9d8465/32.png) [@\_O\_o\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_O_o_1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/30 "2003-08-01T05:39:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*for a forum called Great Debates I donā€™t see a debate here (unless someone wishes to chime in that the education system is just fine as it is). > > Thread over. \*\* Amazing how we have about 25 posts here in about an hour. Crazy, isnā€™t it? ---
**Author:** ![\_O\_o\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/9d8465/32.png) [@\_O\_o\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_O_o_1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/31 "2003-08-01T05:46:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Soup\_du\_jour \* > \*\*In this forum, we debate stuff. \*\* Do you disagree with anything Iā€™ve said. If soā€¦ That. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/32 "2003-08-01T05:58:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by (O\_o) \* > \*\*Amazing how we have about 25 posts here in about an hour. > > Crazy, isnā€™t it? \*\* Crazy? Definitely since the debate so far has been over the meaning of ā€˜blame, articulate and grammarā€™. Considering the OP was on about the US education system Iā€™d say this ā€˜debateā€™ has fallen flat on its face. I shouldnā€™t have started or continued the definition debate. However, I did try to steer it back to education on several occasions as have others. If you want to indict teachers then fine. I tried to call you on that and your response was reagrding my use of the word ā€˜blameā€™. I asked for clarification or expansion of what you were getting at. You responded to the effect that it isnā€™t necessary for you to do so. There is no problem with stating that you donā€™t like my (or otherā€™s) use of a particular word as you think it misrepresents what you are getting at. This should be followed up with clarification of what exactly it was you were trying to say. Look at **Soup\_du\_jourā€™s** post and pick something to carry on about if you wish. Otherwise I have a hard time of seeing what you hoped to accomplish with this thread. > [@](#): > > HAHAā€¦ thereā€™s that elitism I was waiting for. I knew this forum would be fun. > > Does anyone here even LIKE George W. Bush? Nahā€¦not elitism. I just like that stupid adage and have a bad habit of trying to crowbar it into places it probably doesnā€™t belong. As to GWB this board certainly has its liberal leanings and might even be a bit lopsided in that direction but there are plenty of conservatives here as well happy to defend GWB. ---
**Author:** ![\_O\_o\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/9d8465/32.png) [@\_O\_o\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_O_o_1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/33 "2003-08-01T06:07:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*Crazy? Definitely since the debate so far has been over the meaning of ā€˜blame, articulate and grammarā€™. Considering the OP was on about the US education system Iā€™d say this ā€˜debateā€™ has fallen flat on its face. \*\* Yeahā€¦ Whyā€™d you have to bring it here? > [@](#): > > \*\*I shouldnā€™t have started or continued the definition debate. \*\* Good man. > [@](#): > > \*\*However, I did try to steer it back to education on several occasions as have others. If you want to indict teachers then fine. I tried to call you on that and your response was reagrding my use of the word ā€˜blameā€™. \*\* Rightā€¦ It didnā€™t make sense. I cannot answer a question that does not make sense. We can go back to it if youā€™d like. I would. Thoughā€¦ I still have no idea how blame enters the equation. There was no violation on any part. > [@](#): > > \*\*I asked for clarification or expansion of what you were getting at. You responded to the effect that it isnā€™t necessary for you to do so. \*\* You did? Where? You wanted me to write more? Just say ā€œwrite moreā€ next time. Itā€™s much more concise. Unless you had a specific question. If soā€¦ what was it? > [@](#): > > \*\*There is no problem with stating that you donā€™t like my (or otherā€™s) use of a particular word as you think it misrepresents what you are getting at. This should be followed up with clarification of what exactly it was you were trying to say. \*\* Articulate? I did. Click ā€œeditā€ā€¦ then ā€œfindā€ā€¦ then type in ā€œalchemizeā€. Itā€™s right there. > [@](#): > > \*\*Look at **Soup\_du\_jourā€™s** post and pick something to carry on about if you wish. Otherwise I have a hard time of seeing what you hoped to accomplish with this thread. \*\* Debate. Howā€™s that a cloudy motive? > [@](#): > > \*\*Nahā€¦not elitism. \*\* Oh okā€¦ what was I thinking with the phrase: ā€œDonā€™t play with the big dogsā€? Shouldnā€™t my stupidity be supported first? > [@](#): > > \*\*I just like that stupid adage and have a bad habit of trying to crowbar it into places it probably doesnā€™t belong. > > As to GWB this board certainly has its liberal leanings and might even be a bit lopsided in that direction but there are plenty of conservatives here as well happy to defend GWB. \*\* BTW, thank you for the debateā€¦ as ridiculous as it has become. Youā€™re a refreshing voice of intellect. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/34 "2003-08-01T11:31:52Z")
(O\_o): I do not believe your assertion without proof. You made a quantifiable statement without providing numbers to show that such statement is factual. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/35 "2003-08-01T11:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Eubonics has grammar. > > Yes, but not the kind that would be ā€œtaken seriouslyā€ here. This is false. Those of us in the Linguistics field do take it seriously. Every single register of every single language known has its own grammar and that grammar is different even between different registers of the same language. Just because you have a particular prejudice against the education system doesnā€™t mean that you actually know what youā€™re talking about. p.s. (O\_o): Given your incorrect evaluation of whatā€™s involved in a university education, Iā€™d be quite surprised if you had actually attended one. The main difference between a trade school and a university, it seems to be, is that the trade school teaches the student one skill & a university provides a broad education. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/36 "2003-08-01T11:44:49Z")
Ah, this is what I get for posting at 4 in the morning! Be so kind as to mentally edit ā€œit seems to beā€ in my posting above to read ā€œit seems to meā€ so that it reads as I intended it to read. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/37 "2003-08-01T13:08:44Z")
Since you arenā€™t my student and donā€™t report to my school board, I feel safe in saying: Screw you, punk. You post in beautiful English that my experience is useless. You spit on the years I spent in college and graduate school studying how to best teach your ungrateful little ass to post so clearly. You think I donā€™t live in the ā€˜real world?ā€™ Kindergarteners believe that their teachers live at the school; first graders are surprised to see their teachers at the grocery store. High school students know that their teachers go home at 4:00 (or 5, or 6) to lives a lot like theirs. I pay my bills, scrape to get by, have fun, have relationships, have trouble and trauma- what on earth do you want? What do you think the real world is? My life doesnā€™t count unless Iā€™ve-- what? What experiences do you think are enough for me to be qualified to teach you? What about all the time I spent on the factory assembly line paying for that education you think is so irrelevant? Let me tell you, the folks working there felt the same way as you do about education- that itā€™s irrelevant, pointless, and that theirs was the ā€˜real world,ā€™ standing in a grey warehouse putting the lids on ashtrays for years on end. How about the classes I had to take to learn to defend myself from the students who may try to kill me any day I step into my classroom? Is that real enough for you? What about the times Iā€™ve been scared to walk home at night because I thought that might be one of the students I flunked standing in front of my apartment? What about the times it was? You think most of your teachers had easy lives just because they had the grace not to tell their students about their problems? All of them had problems- you just had a few teachers who told their students about them. The whole world is the real world, kid, and all of it is hard. Your teachers didnā€™t get an easier trip because of their job. Do you have any idea what the suicide rate is among teachers? Not quite as bad as cops and dentists, but itā€™s right up there. Did you know how many teachers are driven insane- no, literally insane- by the job? Do you know how many quit before theyā€™re more than a few years into it, because the ā€˜real worldā€™ is so much easier? And it isnā€™t enough that I work and struggle every day and most nights to get you a good education, when the state politicians are making new laws that primarily exist to get them elected but which I then have to incorporate into an already-difficult job. No, but if I manage to get home before 6, I can turn on the news and listen to the media telling the world that itā€™s my fault that teenagers are taking drugs, beating up old ladies, robbing convenience stores, raping kittens, whatever other stupidity theyā€™re doing that keeps them from even waking up for my class. The downfall of Western Civilization is all right on my head, people tell me, and make sure you get those papers graded on time while youā€™re keeping kids off drugs, teaching them high moral standards while respecting their individual beliefs, and making them memorize the Constitution so they donā€™t look ignorant on standardized tests. And the only reward I get, usually, is punks like you telling me that teachers donā€™t know anything at all about the ā€˜real worldā€™ and that their experiences are somehow more ā€˜realā€™ than mine are. How you expected me to teach you without spending time in school with you, or why Iā€™m isolated for teaching school while you are not isolated for attending it, are questions which you clearly have answered to your own satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/38 "2003-08-01T13:13:53Z")
\ **FisherQueen** you sound just like some of my best teachers. \ ---
**Author:** ![Sinful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Sinful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinful)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/39 "2003-08-01T19:56:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by (O\_o) \* > \*\* > > My biggest beef was the caliber of people teaching public schools. For the most part they are people who went from elementary to Jr. high, to High School, to College, to return to school and teach. All they know is school, and they presume to teach about the world. Occasionally I had a teacher I could respect, and more often than not, they had come from difficult paths, or something else that brought them into contact with the outer world. But the majority of teachers Iā€™ve encountered during and since the time I was in school, are pathetic, insulated, mediocre cattle. > > \*\* I think youā€™re pathetic. Do you think most teachers LIKE the system, with tests reigning over knowledge? Uhh NO. And I doubt they like teaching arrogant jerks like you either. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253/40 "2003-08-01T22:14:19Z")
Damnā€¦ sing it, **FisherQueen**! Seriously, _very_ well said. My wife (also a teacher) applauded when I finished reading it to her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-education-system/192253.md?page=3)