# The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 12, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846 "2010-12-12T02:45:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/101 "2011-01-11T06:19:52Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > A behind the scenes look, including concept art and a map of the gameworld (!): > [http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/01/10/video-behind-the-scenes-of-skyrim.aspx](http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/01/10/video-behind-the-scenes-of-skyrim.aspx) That looks like a nifty place to work. Too bad that none of my skills are useful in that field. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/102 "2011-01-11T06:55:56Z")
Isn’t 11/11/11 supposed to be one of those future apocalypse dates? And the appearance of dragons (finally!) in an Elder Scrolls game made me come in my pants a little. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/103 "2011-01-11T11:39:53Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Wait, mounted combat? Does that still mean like, combat on horses? That’s the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. After you’ve played _Mount & Blade_ for a while, mounted combat absolutely feels like it needs to be in every game ever. I could (and do) lance unarmed peasants in the head for hours on end. The only thing better than mounted combat is mounted combat against footmen 🆒. [QUOTE=Der Trihs] That’s something I agree with. Morrowind felt exotic, alien; Cyrodil in Oblivion felt like Generic Fantasy Setting #6453051 [/QUOTE] Amen to that. Don’t want to spoil myself on Skyrim at all (I want to keep any possible “WOAH !” factor at a maximum) so I hope it won’t be the case this time around, because this is basically the reason I didn’t play Oblivion more than a few hours before dropping it. It just felt all cliché, all the time. I guess it’s a safer bet marketing wise (god knows I heard \*Morrowind \*getting bashed because it was outlandish and unfamiliar), but fuck the marketing guys in the ear. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/104 "2011-01-11T20:52:47Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > The god-awful levelling, the shallow interaction, the complete voice/character mismatch outside of the big names, the shallow and full main quest, the erratic quality of other quests, the nightmarish level scaling, the lack of climbing or flying, the tedious dungeons, the badly-done bakgroudn conversation system, the overly-grindy skill levelling, the lack of good player housing where you wanted it, the endless bug-fest, and poor coding, the idiotic polygon budgets… It used to be that you could fly anywhere in Morrowind – it was a world designed to be looked at from any angle. As for the grind of leveling, well, that was once more of an attractive feature in the days of Daggerfall. Things have changed. One that that hasn’t changed since the days of Morrowind is the overuse of a small pool of voice talent. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/105 "2011-01-11T21:13:57Z")
I’m hoping for combat that resembles Dark Messiah over Oblivion. I wanna stick two swords into my enemies belly and watch the life drain from his eyes as he slides off them. I want to kick him down a cliff, stick him in the neck with a poignard, cut across his chest, grab his head and shove him into a spike… Ahh, good times. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/106 "2011-01-11T21:54:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > One that that hasn’t changed since the days of Morrowind is the overuse of a small pool of voice talent. Voice actors are expensive. The result is both repetitiveness and much less dialogue in games that use a lot of voice. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/107 "2011-01-12T17:15:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > It used to be that you could fly anywhere in Morrowind – it was a world designed to be looked at from any angle. As for the grind of leveling, well, that was once more of an attractive feature in the days of Daggerfall. Things have changed. One that that hasn’t changed since the days of Morrowind is the overuse of a small pool of voice talent. True, but in Morrowind they were only there for greetings and the odd combat shout. Much more easy to deal with. I don’t require constant voice acting - it’s certainly expensive and can lock down the feel of a game which is so heavily reliant on mods. But if you’re gonna do it, it needs to be done right. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/108 "2011-01-12T18:23:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Voice actors are expensive. The result is both repetitiveness and much less dialogue in games that use a lot of voice. Are they? Seems like for minor characters you could just hire out the local community theater group for a week to read lines. Not every character needs Patrick Stewart level acting. If the peasant that tells me to kill 50 swamp rats delivery is less then perfect, its not really going to kill the game. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/109 "2011-01-12T18:32:55Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Are they? Seems like for minor characters you could just hire out the local community theater group for a week to read lines. Not every character needs Patrick Stewart level acting. If the peasant that tells me to kill 50 swamp rats delivery is less then perfect, its not really going to kill the game. Exactly - no idea why anyone would think voice actors are expensive, they’re the level above hand actors. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/110 "2011-01-13T05:28:36Z")
More info from GI, this time on ‘Alduin’s Wall’, the stone carving seen in the trailer and the background of TES website. [http://media1.gameinformer.com/images/site/pages/esv/index.html?es=5#](http://media1.gameinformer.com/images/site/pages/esv/index.html?es=5#) Key points: Like Morrowind and Oblivion, the PC is a prisoner at the start of the game. The PC has powers of the Dragonborn like the Septim emperors, and the Blades once again play an important role. Civil war brews in Skyrim, against those in the north who would secede from the crumbling Empire (which I’m surprised is still standing after 200 years) and loyalists. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/111 "2011-01-13T07:53:49Z")
> [@](#): > > One wildly unpopular aspect of Oblivion was the fact basic enemies levelled up alongside you, meaning even the most powerful warriors could sometimes be undone by sewer rats or angry crabs. In Skyrim, though, your opponent’s levelling is more like that found in Fallout 3. Wait, how is the leveling like in Fallout 3? I wish they ditch the concept of a generic level and give out levels for combat, social and magic (or some sort) so enemies won’t be too challenging for my diplomatic thief. Would it be possible not to rely on combat at all? I guess that’s nigh impossible. Anyway, horseback combat works for Mount and Blade, so I see no reason why it wouldn’t work for Skyrim. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/112 "2011-01-13T08:57:44Z")
> [@](#): > > One wildly unpopular aspect of Oblivion was the fact basic enemies levelled up alongside you, meaning even the most powerful warriors could sometimes be undone by sewer rats or angry crabs. In Skyrim, though, your opponent’s levelling is more like that found in Fallout 3. Did this reviewer even play Oblivion or did they hear about enemies leveling second-hand?! Rats and crabs can be killed by almost the blink of an eye by more powerful characters. You don’t even have to slow down when going past them as one attack, whether by sword, bow or spell, is enough to completely destroy them. I can’t imagine any higher level character becoming “undone” by them… ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/113 "2011-01-13T09:06:34Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > Did this reviewer even play Oblivion or did they hear about enemies leveling second-hand?! Rats and crabs can be killed by almost the blink of an eye by more powerful characters. You don’t even have to slow down when going past them as one attack, whether by sword, bow or spell, is enough to completely destroy them. I can’t imagine any higher level character becoming “undone” by them… Change ‘rats’ to ‘bandits’. I think they report the problem wrongly, but there is still a problem, as stated up the thread. You could go swimming, practice locking or what-not then suddenly every bandit is as badass as Aragorn when it comes to sword fighting. They will also have all the high level (though vanilla) armor and weapons. It makes you feel as if you have made no progress at all, and as mentioned up-thread, it’s a killer for those who level up through non-combat skills. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/114 "2011-01-13T09:12:18Z")
> [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > Change ‘rats’ to ‘bandits’. I think they report the problem wrongly, but there is still a problem, as stated up the thread. You could go swimming, practice locking or what-not then suddenly every bandit is as badass as Aragorn when it comes to sword fighting. They will also have all the high level (though vanilla) armor and weapons. It makes you feel as if you have made no progress at all, and as mentioned up-thread, it’s a killer for those who level up through non-combat skills. I agree that the bandits became unrealistically powerful, it was the mention of rats and crabs that I thought was silly. Why the need for them to exaggerate? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/115 "2011-01-13T14:46:53Z")
Well, I think rats and crabs became like rabid wolves and supercrabs or something, didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/116 "2011-01-13T15:45:55Z")
As you went up in level rather than running into rats in the wild you would run into mountain lions or bears but where you did meet a rat like in a dungeon they were pretty weedy and a lot easier than they were to beat when you met them at early levels (not that they were tough then). Supercrabs? They were the ones with laserbeams on their heads and pneumatically-enhanced claws? I’d forgotten about them. They were hard. ---
**Author:** ![Spectralist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Spectralist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectralist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/117 "2011-01-13T16:42:42Z")
> [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > Wait, how is the leveling like in Fallout 3? Basically like in Oblivion but a bit different. It’s best explained as an example. One enemy type in Fallout3 is the Super Mutant. There are 4 basic variants/difficulties of the super mutants. From easiest to hardest - Super Mutant, Super Mutant Brute, Super Mutant Master, Super Mutant Overlord. At level one you will only encounter Super Mutants. As you gain levels though Super Mutant Brutes start to get peppered in with the Super Mutants. Eventually you will encounter no, or very very few, standard Super Mutants and Brutes will become the norm with Masters being peppered in. Then eventually the same transition happens into Overlords. It works better to showcase your character’s progression because by the time the simple Super Mutants start to disappear you can probably one shot them, especially with a headshot. And the Brutes, when they first appear, kind of work like randomly generated boss monsters mixed in with the weaker enemies. But as they get easier they get more numerous until the Masters show up and work quite well as the randomly generated bosses. It’s a pretty good system and would work even better with more iterations and more enemy variety. The jump between Masters and Overlords was way to huge. Last time I played I was one or two shotting Masters with sneak attacks when my first Overlord showed up and he sucked up more than 300 shots to kill. It was quite ridiculous. > [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > I wish they ditch the concept of a generic level and give out levels for combat, social and magic (or some sort) so enemies won’t be too challenging for my diplomatic thief. > > Would it be possible not to rely on combat at all? I guess that’s nigh impossible. I think the idea is that it _should_ be much harder for your diplomatic thief to fight. He’s a diplomatic thief he should be talking or sneaking his way around the enemies. In practice this is, usually, much more difficult than just killing them. But it is doable in both Oblivion and Morrowind the vast majority of the time. And if you use some illusion magic it even becomes fairly practical. Though in Oblivion at least illusion is a bit of a pain to level since there are few useful usable spells till you get it to 50. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/118 "2011-01-13T17:30:09Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > Basically like in Oblivion but a bit different. It’s best explained as an example.[…] Levelling itself is also more classical in Fallout 3: you gain XP from fulfilling quests, period. Once you’ve got enough XP, you gain a level and assign points to your stats and skills. Fighting, talking and picking locks are only means to an end. This makes it easier to adequate the enemy difficulty with the player’s combat might, since if he’s completed N quests so far he must have faced or sneaked past enemy Y victoriously. By comparison the ES levelling scheme, while more “realistic”, means you can cause Daemonic Bandits of Doom to spawn all over the world just by talking to store clerks and eating watermelon. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/119 "2011-01-13T17:40:04Z")
Oh, and a pacifist-ish run is also doable in Fallout 3, few quests absolutely force you into unavoidable or inescapable fights (and in the GNR one at least you’re handed a handheld nuke to make sure you win, even if you’re a diplo runt 🙂 ). It’s still way more troublesome than just shooting muties in the grill with a repeater shotgun mind you :). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846/120 "2011-01-13T17:42:20Z")
Again, levelling and scaling are two seperate entities. Oblivion could’ve had a normal quest based XP system had still had the monsters scaled to you, or the skill-based levelling system where every mob in the game was a fixed level. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/563846.md?page=7)