# The elephant in the room: George W. Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 9, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578 "2011-12-09T02:09:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/81 "2011-12-16T20:25:40Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No. We will acknowledge that they happened. We will also acknowledge that Obama made the situation worse, not better. A damn sight worse. Tell it to the troops. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/82 "2011-12-17T01:45:05Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No. We will acknowledge that they happened. We will also acknowledge that Obama made the situation worse, not better. A damn sight worse. How exactly? Has terrorism gotten worse during Obama’s administration than it was during Bush’s? Has Obama started more wars than Bush did? Obama may have economic problems but his administration faced economic problems when it started. Bush started with economic prosperity and created economic problems. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/83 "2011-12-19T20:35:23Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Big difference. We won in Iraq. The real difference is, nobody went into Iraq who didn’t _willingly_ join the armed forces at some point. (This is slightly before my time, but, IIRC, there was a time when 19 was old enough to die for your country, but not old enough in 46 states to vote for the person who made that decision.) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/84 "2011-12-23T16:22:41Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Yes it [was](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_recession). Yeah but you can’t say Bush inherited a recession. And you certainly can’t claim he inherited the sort of economy that Obama inherited. [quote=“Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi, post:32, topic:605578”] How would the deadlock against Iraq over WMDs have turned out then? There are those who think that Gore would have invaded Iraq just later after gaining international support. There are those who think the British royal family are actually lizards. We would NEVER have gained international support. That is why we invaded when we did. There was no building sense of urgency that would eventually lead to broad international support, the sense of urgency was FADING and that is why we moved so precipitously so taht kids like you can look back and say “well at the time it looked like it might have been a good idea” because with the passage of time it was clear that the coalition of the “willing” would come to the same conclusion as the other 90% of the world and realize that there were no WMDs worth worrying about. > [@](#): > > He had no problem putting troops in Bosnia, Somalia, and Kosovo although none of them posed a danger to America unlike OBL\> And OBL was in Iraq? > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > My point is that they’re not and they don’t have to; not in any real sense. The applause lines and talking points are the same now as they were then, just coming out of different mouths. As **Qin** is demonstrating, the true believers will still defend Bush on the specifics, and still cheer for someone just like him. The years 2001-2009 happened, but they have not learned anything from them. > > The Republican nominee should run the exact same campaign that Bush did. The only thing about Bush that’s discredited is his name. And you don’t think Democrats can do a side by side comparison of Bush with such a Republican candidate? > [@Knorf](#): > > This is a falsehood and always has been. The “everybody” part, I mean. Plenty of reasons to question the “intelligence” in the months leading up to the war came to light, and plenty of people did question it, including the actual UN weapons inspectors actually in Iraq. > > Hans Blix, chief UN weapons inspector, said there were no WMDs in the months before the war, and that Iraq was being cooperative. Scott Ritter, former chief weapons inspector, reversed his earlier position and said the following, in June, _1999_: “When you ask the question, ‘Does Iraq possess militarily viable biological or chemical weapons?’ the answer is no! It is a resounding NO. Can Iraq produce today chemical weapons on a meaningful scale? No! Can Iraq produce biological weapons on a meaningful scale? No! Ballistic missiles? No! It is ‘no’ across the board. So from a qualitative standpoint, Iraq has been disarmed. Iraq today possesses no meaningful weapons of mass destruction capability.” > > [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction). Read the “Between inspections: 1998-2002” section in particular. > > There were voices stating that Iraq had no WMDs. Some of us heard them. If by “some” you mean the vast majority of the world, the UN, NATO, etc. sure but what else you got? > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So nobody was glad Saddam was gone. You made it sound like the whole country was happy. I don’t think getting rid of Saddam Hussein was worth it. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/85 "2011-12-23T17:15:29Z")
At this point in time, I’m sure that being tied to Obama is a bigger detriment than being tied to Bush. Bush left office nearly three years ago. Most voters aren’t concerned with what happened that long ago, but rather their economic well-being at present. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/86 "2011-12-23T21:15:46Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > At this point in time, I’m sure that being tied to Obama is a bigger detriment than being tied to Bush. Bush left office nearly three years ago. Most voters aren’t concerned with what happened that long ago, but rather their economic well-being at present. The problem is that the “most voters” you’re relying on to vote against Obama in 2012 are the same “most voters” you were relying on to vote against him in 2008. You need to face the fact that you apparently don’t have a representative sample. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/87 "2011-12-23T21:40:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The problem is that the “most voters” you’re relying on to vote against Obama in 2012 are the same “most voters” you were relying on to vote against him in 2008. You need to face the fact that you apparently don’t have a representative sample. I have no idea what you’re getting at in your post, but (1) I voted for Obama in 2008 and (2) last I checked, Bush had a higher approval rating than did Obama, due partly to more people viewing Bush more favorably the further out from his presidency we go and more people viewing Obama more unfavorably the further into his presidency he goes. Whatever happened in 2008 before the start of Obama’s presidency will have little bearing on the election next year as when compared to what Obama has done during his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/88 "2011-12-23T22:04:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And you don’t think Democrats can do a side by side comparison of Bush with such a Republican candidate? They could make such a comparison; a clip of Bush promising lower taxes and then a clip of Romney promising lower taxes. Do you think it would change very many minds? Lots of Republicans still want all the things Bush promised them, regardless of how it turned out when Bush tried to deliver them. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I have no idea what you’re getting at in your post, but (1) I voted for Obama in 2008 and (2) last I checked, Bush had a higher approval rating than did Obama, due partly to more people viewing Bush more favorably the further out from his presidency we go and more people viewing Obama more unfavorably the further into his presidency he goes. Whatever happened in 2008 before the start of Obama’s presidency will have little bearing on the election next year as when compared to what Obama has done during his presidency. The classic question is “are you better off now than you were four years ago”, in which case conditions at the end of the Bush presidency are entirely relevant. If the economy changes as quickly in the summer of '12 as it did four years previous, who knows what the answer to that question will be by election day. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578/89 "2011-12-25T01:25:03Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Will a large part of Gingrich’s campaign or Romney’s campaign consist of “Obama’s policies are terrible; I’m going to change them”? How will that work for them? Yes. They’re running on killing off the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and killing off a few government agencies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-elephant-in-the-room-george-w-bush/605578.md?page=4)