Aka, a “crisis” largely manufactured by the Bush administration.
…which you believe was justification to commit war on Iraq. Listen, it doesn’t matter whether or not you honestly believe there were WMD in Iraq. You assert the potential as only one justification (there were others, and just as ridiculous) for a criminal and ultimately genocidal act.
The Bush administration didn’t believe there were WMD there either, yet asserted it for the same reason. They were going to invade Iraq no matter what.
I just hope I’m still alive when those megalomaniacs get their comeuppance. Excuse me if I don’t hold my breath waiting for someone to do the right thing.
Genocidal? And with the benefit of hindsight I’ve said and will say again I wouldn’t have supported Iraq.
I don’t think Iraq has done to the GOP what Vietnam did to the Dems. After 1968, the Democrats not only were not the party of LBJ; they were no longer the party of FDR (and LBJ was more FDR’s heir than JFK or Truman were).
The GOP continue to be the Ronnets. Since Reagan didn’t actually have a big war (though he always greatly communicated that he wouldn’t back down from one if God or Mr Warner insisted on one to punch up the script) the GOP can disassociate Iraq from his legacy, and all the rotating frontrunners can continue to claim to be Ronnier than thou.
Big difference. We won in Iraq.
You must be posting from the future because I don’t think there is anything close to a consensus on that here at the end of 2012.
Sigh. We won? Won what? What did we win? We decimated a country, caused thousands of its citizens to be killed, hundreds of thousands hurt and displaced from their homes, many of those forced to become refugees in neighboring countries, many of whom have still not returned, and of those who have, many had nothing left to return to. We turned a largely secular Sunni controlled state into a quasi theocratic Shiite dominated one. Some win that.
Through our actions, we directly caused Iraq to become a recruiting and training ground for terrorists, and then we supplied the terrorists, not only by ripping apart and destroying families, but businesses, schools, banks, shops, religious institutions, even the basic foundations of the country’s infrastructure, like bridges, roads, water and sewage systems, etc… We ripped away the Iraqi people’s dignity, and their ability to fend for their families and themselves, or to even provide basic care and sustenance. We took away their humanity, like it was ours to take, like it was nothing.
And then, in the height of cognitive dissonance, America became outraged when the Iraqi people, having had just about enough of being insulted, intruded upon, yelled at, commanded to, falsely arrested, stomped on, shot at, terrorized, raped, and killed, by the very Americans who were ostensibly there to liberate them, notwithstanding the fact that we were never asked to liberate them in the first place, began to band together to repel us from their lives. We started using words like ‘insurgents’ as though we were somehow a legitimate arm of the Iraqi government, when we were nothing but invaders with no legitimate claim to anything there, not a pebble.
It’s taken over eight years to finally extricate ourselves from Iraq, and what do we walk away with? What did we win? Is America in better shape than it was before we spent countless billions of dollars we couldn’t afford? No. Are we richer, in any way, for the experience? No. Has our standing in the world, or respect for America, increased because of our action? No. Is Iraq more stable than it was before the war? No. Are the Iraqis grateful for what what we did in and to their country and its people? No. Is America safer as a result of our ‘winning’ in Iraq? No. Has terrorism been stopped or significantly curtailed since our foray into Iraq? No. Cynically, do we even have control over their oil? No. So, again, what did we win? We toppled a tin pot dictator in a world of tin pot dictators. You consider that a win with over 4000 American troops dead, and counting? I consider it despicable.
Yes, we did. Back in 1991.
Oh, but we “won” in Vietnam! We were never defeated on the battlefield; Vietnam is now functionally an entrepreneurial capitalist nation; our effort was born of the noblest motives; so no matter the outcome, our sacrifice was not misspent; I’m sorry, it was the Cold War and we had to fight proxy wars to avoid nuclear ones; I really did do my homework but the dog ate the Pentagon Papers.
I know we’re not supposed to insult other members, but this is the kind of bullshit that insults the dead and guarantees there’ll be more people killed
The future never happened.
Wonderfully said.
The next time Dick Cheney crawls out of his hole to appear on FoxNews, I wish someone would read this to him.
I’m not defending the decision to invade Iraq. What I am saying is that the war while bad for the GOP and the country is not on the same level of disaster as Saigon falling. However let me do since you made this post make a few points.
Is that why there were jubilant crowds as the US troops entered Baghdad and the crowds toppled the statues of Saddam Hussein? How did we exactly strip them of their dignity and humanity? Did we try to destroy their culture or force them to convert?
The majority may not have wanted invasion but the majority of Iraq-Kurds and Shias both were oppressed and discrimnated against. Both have gained as a result of the invasion. In addition you seem to paint the American occupation as some support of Soviet occupation of Germany in 1945 or the Nazi occupation of France complete with massacres, deportations, and mass gang rapes.
I agree with all this.
As I’ve said with hindsight I would not have supported the Iraq war.
It’s been known for some years that this was a staged photo-op.
Who cares about hindsight? Had you been older than six at the time, you would have been eagerly panting at the bait along with the rest of the crew. Perhaps, even at six, you were anyway.
Well everybody was mistaken about the intelligence. The war happened with strong support by the American people.
There aren’t enough roll eyes in the world for this.
The intelligence was staged, massaged, and had lipstick put on its nether parts.
It was very clear to anyone with half a brain that Saddam did not have WMDs. Period.
If the intelligence was so accurate, why, when we invaded, did we not immediately head to the sites of the WMDs to secure them?
No, not everyone. Canadian intelligence stated that while a few rotted shells might be lying around, there was no indication that Iraq had any ongoing weapons programs or stashes, be they north, south, east, or west of Tikrit. Also, since the UNSC didn’t actually vote in favour of the war after Powell showed them his cartoons, they didn’t buy it either. Even Rumsfeld said long after the fact that he had neglected to mention any facts that didn’t support Republican policy regarding invading Iraq.
Well, the Oil Ministry building wasn’t about to secure itself, was it?
I stand by my earlier assessment; George W. Bush may have been a failure, but everything he did was right. A Republican who promises the same things will get the same support from the same people.
Two words: blowback.