# The emotional life of the higher mammals **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965 "2012-02-06T11:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/1 "2012-02-06T11:32:46Z")
What kind of emotions do we share with the higher animals (excluding our closed simian cousins) in such a way that they are roughly comparable? It seems to me obvious that we share some basic feelings closely connected to the workings of the body, like hunger, thirsts, drowsiness, etc. with most higher and lower animals, and that the feelings are comparable. Also fear & panic. Lawrence wrote that a bird will fall frozen from a bough without ever feeling sorry for itself. Are there any of the higher animals that feel sorry for themselves? What about love? Does a lion mother love her cubs, and is the love comparable with what a human mother feels for her children. Does the dog mother think the small stubby nose and big paws are cute? Does elephant mother think her calf’s snout is cute and feel pride when the child does something elephant-thing for the first time? Is the feelings shared in a pack of wolves comparable with the love felt between friends? Etc. What are the feelings we share with higher mammals, and what are those we have only for ourselves? Are there any sort of emotions that some species of animals have that humans do not have? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/2 "2012-02-06T11:56:55Z")
Recommended [reading](http://www.amazon.com/Age-Empathy-Natures-Lessons-Society/dp/0307407772/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328529260&sr=8-1): _The Age of Empathy: Nature’s Lessons for a Kinder Societ_y by dr. Frans de Waal. > [@](#): > > Are we our brothers’ keepers? Do we have an instinct for compassion? Or are we, as is often assumed, only on earth to serve our own survival and interests? In this thought-provoking book, the acclaimed author of Our Inner Ape examines how empathy comes naturally to a great variety of animals, including humans. > > By studying social behaviors in animals, such as bonding, the herd instinct, the forming of trusting alliances, expressions of consolation, and conflict resolution, Frans de Waal demonstrates that animals–and humans–are “preprogrammed to reach out.” He has found that chimpanzees care for mates that are wounded by leopards, elephants offer “reassuring rumbles” to youngsters in distress, and dolphins support sick companions near the water’s surface to prevent them from drowning. From day one humans have innate sensitivities to faces, bodies, and voices; we’ve been designed to feel for one another. > > De Waal’s theory runs counter to the assumption that humans are inherently selfish, which can be seen in the fields of politics, law, and finance, and whichseems to be evidenced by the current greed-driven stock market collapse. But he cites the public’s outrage at the U.S. government’s lack of empathy in the wake of Hurricane Katrina as a significant shift in perspective–one that helped Barack Obama become elected and ushered in what may well become an Age of Empathy. Through a better understanding of empathy’s survival value in evolution, de Waal suggests, we can work together toward a more just society based on a more generous and accurate view of human nature. > > Written in layman’s prose with a wealth of anecdotes, wry humor, and incisive intelligence, The Age of Empathy is essential reading for our embattled times. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/3 "2012-02-06T13:21:58Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > What kind of emotions do we share with the higher animals (excluding our closed simian cousins) in such a way that they are roughly comparable? We share most of the brain structures involving emotions with our ape relatives; most likely they have most of the emotions we have that don’t require our higher intellectual abilities. > [@Rune](#): > > Lawrence wrote that a bird will fall frozen from a bough without ever feeling sorry for itself. How does he know? Birds aren’t like, say, insects; they have enough brains to at least potentially feel something _with_. And the higher level of bird brains evolved separately from mammals; when you get right down to it, anything _they_ feel is logically going to be quite alien to anything _we_ feel, even if it serves the same function. > [@Rune](#): > > Are there any sort of emotions that some species of animals have that humans do not have? Anything like a bird that evolved higher brain functions separately from our own ancestors presumably has emotions (if any) that are very alien to ours. Probably incomprehensible to us in terms of how they feel from the inside; we and they have different “hardware”. If they were intelligent we and they would probably use the same words for emotions that are functionally the same between us, like fear or anger; but we would be be using the same word to describe different experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/4 "2012-02-06T13:31:19Z")
I watched a lemur grieve for her dead child after he fell from a tree branch. She held his tiny body in her arms and cried. I have no doubt that at least some non-human mammals can have human-like emotions. Also, it seems clear to me that dogs are capable of love. They might just love you more than themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/5 "2012-02-06T16:15:35Z")
Lawrence was writing as a poet, not a naturalist. Parrots, to take one example, are highly social and imprint to a degree that in human terms would be called “emotionally needy” or even “codependent.” Certainly, we’re not privy to their inner lives, and anthropomorphizing them is inevitably a distortion, but clearly they don’t like being alone, and they get some kind of happiness out of nuzzling and grooming. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/6 "2012-02-06T16:54:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Anything like a bird that evolved higher brain functions separately from our own ancestors presumably has emotions (if any) that are very alien to ours. Probably incomprehensible to us in terms of how they feel from the inside; we and they have different “hardware”. If they were intelligent we and they would probably use the same words for emotions that are functionally the same between us, like fear or anger; but we would be be using the same word to describe different experiences. Feelings in a Darwinian context servers a purpose. Hunger to call attention to the needs of food, fear of the need to be alert, etc. If we cannot actually feel the same feelings, like it is impossible to describe colours to a colour-blind person, perhaps it would be possible to describe feelings alien to us in the same way, as to what purpose they are communicating. > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Lawrence was writing as a poet, not a naturalist. Parrots, to take one example, are highly social and imprint to a degree that in human terms would be called “emotionally needy” or even “codependent.” Certainly, we’re not privy to their inner lives, and anthropomorphizing them is inevitably a distortion, but clearly they don’t like being alone, and they get some kind of happiness out of nuzzling and grooming. Parrots in general are interesting because they form life-long bonds (or some bird species do, not sure about parrots). Perhaps they feel love for the mate as well. I trying to establish in how far anthropomorphizing them is an acceptable approximation. Birds, and all higher animals will feel hunger, cold, etc. But I don’t think any animal (excepting perhaps our closed simian cousins) will feel sorry for themselves – this would require a level of abstraction they’re probably not capable of. Sometimes a cats and dogs will make some sounds that resemble crying, but I don’t think they actually do so because they feel sad or miserable. I think they’re just communicating. I’m not sure about hatred. I saw a nature clip about a pack of wolves, wherein a lower standing member mated with another member of the pack. A privilege apparently reserved for the leader of the pack. Immediately after there was some sort of unrelated crisis. But after a few days when the immediate crisis was resolved, the leader of the pack responded by driving off the wolf that had had unlawful sex. I saw something similar with a colony of prairie dogs. To remember this affront after several days, is perhaps indicative of some kind of resentment or hatred. But I don’t think for instance zebras in general hate lions. I’m sure a mother dog/lion thinks her puppies/cubs are cute, and the cuteness must be associated to the parts of the babies that are baby-like. Short snout/tail, big paws, clumsy gait, etc. But I don’t actually know this. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/7 "2012-02-06T17:41:41Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > What kind of emotions do we share with the higher animals (excluding our closed simian cousins) in such a way that they are roughly comparable? Even in other humans, we can only hope to infer an emotional state. It’s inaccurate to anthropomorphize yet it is hard not to. To avoid it you can make predictions about the effects of emotions on observable measures such as behavior or various aspects of physiology. For example, it’s possible to infer that mice have anxiety. There are at least 3 tests that measure their fear/anxiety by allowing them to choose between a potentially dangerous “open” environment versus a safer environment. [First is the elevated plus maze.](http://www.google.com/search?q=elevated+plus+maze&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=jggwT5rAKqiJsQLq2OS2Dg&sqi=2&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=665&bih=596) It has enclosed arms and open arms and more anxious mice (or rats or probably any small rodent) will avoid the aversive open areas. Not only do they superficially act in a manner that we would expect of people experiencing anxiety - avoiding the aversive environment - their anxiety is also treatable by some anti-anxiety medications. It’s a frequently used test for new medications. The [open field test](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_field_test) (spending time in the brightly lit center means the rodent is less anxious) and [light-dark transition test](http://www.jove.com/video/104/light-dark-transition-test-for-mice) each are used to measure anxiety and are successful in testing anti-anxiety drugs. Other tests of what might be considered negative emotional states are [learned helplessness paradigms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness) in dogs and rodents for depression, [fear conditioning](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_conditioning) for more on fear/anxiety, and do mice feel anger/hatred? They certainly are willing to attack just about anything that smells wrong. > [@Rune](#): > > What about love? Does a lion mother love her cubs, and is the love comparable with what a human mother feels for her children. Does the dog mother think the small stubby nose and big paws are cute? Does elephant mother think her calf’s snout is cute and feel pride when the child does something elephant-thing for the first time? Is the feelings shared in a pack of wolves comparable with the love felt between friends? I wouldn’t investigate this using the term “love”, it’s addressed behaviorally by the term “social attachment” and covers all the kinds of bonds you mentioned. Social animals certainly show attachment and [Harry Harlow famously experimented with this behavior in monkeys](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrNBEhzjg8I&feature=related). The physiology of this behavior in nonhuman, nonsimian animals, including rodents, seems to be similar to that found in primates. [Here’s a link to an abstract that gives you some idea of what was known as of 14 years ago](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453098000559). As to your last question: are there emotions other animals have that we do not experience, I have no idea how we would be ever sure of that. I would guess that although the mechanism may vary, the content would be similar among distantly related species. Sort of like how vision has evolved. After all, emotions help in being decisive in similar sorts of circumstances, on the other hand, [I really don’t think these Drosophila flies are angry or feeling any emotion](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJaDoTigvEI). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/8 "2012-02-06T17:47:39Z")
Well, there’s music. I really don’t count bird songs or whale songs or any sound a nonhuman makes as “music”; the creation of original sound-patterns for purely esthetic purposes is a unique human specialty. But, I do wonder, have any animals been observed to **appreciate** music? As in expressing somehow, “Please keep playing that, don’t turn it off.” And have any been observed to express a preference for some music over other music? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/9 "2012-02-06T17:56:55Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I watched a lemur grieve for her dead child after he fell from a tree branch. She held his tiny body in her arms and cried. I have no doubt that at least some non-human mammals can have human-like emotions. Also, it seems clear to me that dogs are capable of love. They might just love you more than themselves. [Possible anthropomorphism ahead] I saw a female wren make an eerie possibly mournful cry over and over on my front porch after her babies were eaten by some passing blue jays (they had nested in an old cat box on my front porch). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/10 "2012-02-06T18:05:04Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > As to your last question: are there emotions other animals have that we do not experience, I have no idea how we would be ever sure of that. I think to be sure we’d need a detailed understanding of how emotions work at the neurological level, including understanding how the deep level neurological functions translate to the high level phenomena we call emotions. Then we would probably know enough of how emotions work at the biological level (and have the proper scientific instruments) to look at other animal brains and predict whether or not a particular set of neurological behaviors will translate into an emotion. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/11 "2012-02-06T18:19:10Z")
Grieving for dead offspring seems to be rather common. Certainly we have observed African elephant mothers grieve for a dead calf. The concept of death seems to be universal among the animals with more complex nervous systems. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/12 "2012-02-06T18:43:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, I do wonder, have any animals been observed to **appreciate** music? My dog barks frantically during the Volkswagen commercial where the dogs bark the theme to Star Wars. I assume she’s reacting just to the fact that they’re barking, though, and not that they’re barking out a tune. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-emotional-life-of-the-higher-mammals/611965/13 "2012-02-06T21:24:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, there’s music. I really don’t count bird songs or whale songs or any sound a nonhuman makes as “music”; the creation of original sound-patterns for purely esthetic purposes is a unique human specialty. But, I do wonder, have any animals been observed to **appreciate** music? As in expressing somehow, “Please keep playing that, don’t turn it off.” And have any been observed to express a preference for some music over other music? Why does nonhuman animal appreciation for sounds and their patterns have to be a desire for music? Before continuing, I do not believe the premise that humans make anything for purely aesthetic purposes, or better still the purely aesthetic purpose has always benefited the creator with more chances at reproduction. Do nonhuman animals show a preference for certain sounds or the pattern by which the sounds are expressed? Of course. Lots of males’ efforts at reproduction would be completely in vain if this weren’t the case. A vaguely remembered paper from a long time ago showed how females of a frog species preferred the calls of males from another species. Is there something about the sound that is more attractive to the female? There must be. Is it an aesthetic appreciation? Is an emotion the combination of stimulus, physiological response, and behavioral expression so that there must be a music enjoyment emotion and a sex enjoyment emotion? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think to be sure we’d need a detailed understanding of how emotions work at the neurological level, including understanding how the deep level neurological functions translate to the high level phenomena we call emotions. Then we would probably know enough of how emotions work at the biological level (and have the proper scientific instruments) to look at other animal brains and predict whether or not a particular set of neurological behaviors will translate into an emotion. This sounds like it could work but there is an issue because the best models of emotional behavior require an environmental context for the person to consciously recognize the emotion they are experiencing. For example, many emotions are accompanied by sympathetic nervous system activity, but you cannot use SNS activity to judge what emotion a person is feeling. Only knowing what environment an individual is in will allow you to say how the individual is interpreting the SNS activation. There is plenty of evidence that neurological activity is distinct enough to parse many similar emotions but it may be impossible to identify an emotional experience completely through physiological activity. Maybe if you observed their blood supply and hypothalamic activity, combined with limbic dopamine release and intensity of whatever signals the exact reward you could say they feel satiated.