# The Empire Strikes Back dialogue **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 16, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184 "2008-08-16T03:38:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/21 "2008-08-16T14:17:41Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] ETA: **Scissorjack** , you beat me to it. “Do or do not. There is no try.” What the fuck does that mean? [/QUOTE] It means that lifting spaceships with your brain doesn’t work very well if you’re doing it half-heartedly. Luke’s choice of words betrayed his lack of confidence, which is why Yoda corrected him. At the end of the scene Yoda _explicitly_ states that the reason Luke failed was because he didn’t believe that he could do it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/22 "2008-08-16T16:33:22Z")
In the Product Placement version of Star Wars, Yoda will be shown holding a can of Mountain Dew in one hand and a generic cola in the other. “Dew, or Dew Not. There is no trei.” ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/23 "2008-08-16T16:48:12Z")
The dialogue in ESB is so sharp that even the presence of Muppets doesn’t diminish the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/24 "2008-08-16T16:54:16Z")
[QUOTE=Chimera] In the Product Placement version of Star Wars, Yoda will be shown holding a can of Mountain Dew in one hand and a generic cola in the other. “Dew, or Dew Not. There is no trei.” [/QUOTE] "Moichandising! ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/25 "2008-08-16T17:10:56Z")
[QUOTE=cactus waltz] Well, of course, it means that Luke (huh, Star Wars used to be about that guy) can’t afford to even have the possibility to fail. His self-confidence and connection with the Force must be total: \*\*trying \*\*implies that there’s a risk of not succeeding, so he can only _do_. Yoda certainly sounds like a bit of a wisecracker when he says it, but in the circumstances they are in (universe at stake, et c.), it’s pretty solid advice. [/QUOTE] Kind of like Yoda did, or did not, defeat Palpatine in the light saber duel just a few years before, when the universe was also at stake? Or did Yoda merely try to defeat Palpatine? ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/26 "2008-08-16T17:14:13Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] Kind of like Yoda did, or did not, defeat Palpatine in the light saber duel just a few years before, when the universe was also at stake? Or did Yoda merely try to defeat Palpatine? [/QUOTE] Hey, I didn’t write these movies. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/27 "2008-08-16T19:06:16Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] Kind of like Yoda did, or did not, defeat Palpatine in the light saber duel just a few years before, when the universe was also at stake? Or did Yoda merely try to defeat Palpatine? [/QUOTE] Its a mental thing. He didnt go into the fight with Palpy thinking he was going try his best. He went in thinking he was the best damned jedi in the galaxy and was going to kick some ass. That he lost simply means Palpatine had the advantage. All yoda was saying with the do or do not speech was if you let the possibility of failure enter your heart, you most certainly will fail. Apparently the force doesnt work if you don’t believe in it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/28 "2008-08-16T19:08:02Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] Kind of like Yoda did, or did not, defeat Palpatine in the light saber duel just a few years before, when the universe was also at stake? Or did Yoda merely try to defeat Palpatine? [/QUOTE] See, that’s the thing. In ESB, Yoda is a bitter, defeated old man. He failed to detect a Sith Lord, gaining power directly under his nose, despite repeated contact, despite all the events leading up to that point. He played right into it. When the shit hit the fan, he failed to take out Palpatine, thus enabling the further existence of the Empire and the death of all he’d lived for. So he chose the most god forsaken shithole of a planet to live on, all alone without any natives, in penance for his sins. That’s why he’s so tough on Luke. All the Jedi failed and died. He failed and lived. There is only one last hope, Vader’s child. And the bitter old muppet has only a short period of time to train this boy to face his father, after the only other old Jedi he knows of was killed by Vader. It also explains why Yoda dies in RotJ. He’s held onto life just long enough to complete Luke’s training. He’s done the only thing he can do to atone for his own failures. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/29 "2008-08-16T19:40:48Z")
There is success, and there is failure. If you fail, do not expect to be congratulated because you “tried.” There is no try. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/30 "2008-08-16T19:56:42Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] The dialogue in ESB is so sharp that even the presence of Muppets doesn’t diminish the movie. [/QUOTE] You’ll do yourself a great service to watch more Muppets. The writing staff for the Muppets are quite sharp and were especially so during the period we’re discussing. I happen to agree with those posting here that there was some great dialogue in _The Empire Strikes Back_, but compare it to _The Great Muppet Caper_, which came out the following year. If we’re critiquing dialogue, _Caper_ leaves _Empire_ in the dust. Piggy: Why are you telling me all this? Lady Holiday: It’s plot exposition, it has to go somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/31 "2008-08-16T19:59:00Z")
my fav. line is vader’s “all too easy.” i use it when ever i trick the cats. (which is not too easy sometimes.) ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/32 "2008-08-16T20:38:49Z")
[QUOTE=bienville] If we’re critiquing dialogue, _Caper_ leaves _Empire_ in the dust. [/QUOTE] _Sound of all the muppets in the room arguing amongst themselves until they’re shhhhhed into silence by Kermit except Janice who is still arguing_ Janice: Look mother if I want to go and join a love group and hang around all day naked them that’s MY decision, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/33 "2008-08-16T21:45:55Z")
My understanding is that Lawrence Kasdan wrote the bulk of the movie, and credit was given to Leigh Brackett (who died after completing a rough first draft) only out of respect and kindness. Kasdan has said that he bareluy read her draft. Willard and Gloria Hyuck have recently been acknowledged as writing a lot of the dialogue for the original “Star Wars” (A New Hope, and all that). I’ve never heard of a source stating that they contributed anything to ESB. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/34 "2008-08-16T23:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] ETA: **Scissorjack** , you beat me to it. “Do or do not. There is no try.” What the fuck does that mean? There’s a good reason the word “try” is in the English language (as well as putting the object after the verb). Maybe they don’t have that word on Yoda’s freaky-deaky homeworld, but it comes in handy around here, Bub. [/QUOTE] It means that, when you add it all up, the results from trying something and failing are the same as not doing it at all. Harsh, perhaps, but there’s a real point there. > [@Don't Call Me Shirley](#): > > Kind of like Yoda did, or did not, defeat Palpatine in the light saber duel just a few years before, when the universe was also at stake? Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/35 "2008-08-16T23:58:28Z")
Luke (the punk) Skywalker: I’m not afraid. Yoda: Eh? You _will_ be, you will be! ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/36 "2008-08-17T00:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=bienville] You’ll do yourself a great service to watch more Muppets. The writing staff for the Muppets are quite sharp and were especially so during the period we’re discussing. I happen to agree with those posting here that there was some great dialogue in _The Empire Strikes Back_, but compare it to _The Great Muppet Caper_, which came out the following year. If we’re critiquing dialogue, _Caper_ leaves _Empire_ in the dust. Piggy: Why are you telling me all this? Lady Holiday: It’s plot exposition, it has to go somewhere. [/QUOTE] Point taken. I should not have implied that Muppets and good dialogue are mutually exclusive. That was wrong of me. However, I feel strongly that Lucas later turned to Muppetry as a substitute for good dialogue. Muppets, like midgets, are a tool that can be used for good, or for evil. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/37 "2008-08-17T00:45:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sir Rhosis] I’ve never heard of a source stating that they contributed anything to ESB. [/QUOTE] Hmm, you’re right. I misread the paragraph I was looking at. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/38 "2008-08-17T18:32:22Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] Kind of like Yoda did, or did not, defeat Palpatine in the light saber duel just a few years before, when the universe was also at stake? Or did Yoda merely try to defeat Palpatine? [/QUOTE] That’s the point, isn’t it? Yoda, in the “latter” episodes is an almost mythical being, who can’t fail. But the characterization of the “early” episodes turns him into a liar who pushes Luke past the point he was able to attain himself. The same happens to Obi Wan Kenobi, (even though he was characterized pretty inconsistently even in the “latter” 3 episodes). Over all? Lucas never really had an overarching story to tell. He was making it up as he went along. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/39 "2008-08-17T18:48:27Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Muppets, like midgets, are a tool that can be used for good, or for evil. [/QUOTE] It’s unfortunate that this line was cut from _Episode One_. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184/40 "2008-08-17T19:01:34Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] There is success, and there is failure. If you fail, do not expect to be congratulated because you “tried.” There is no try. [/QUOTE] A moronic attitude for real life, but I can see its point in that particular story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-dialogue/460184.md?page=3)