# The Empire Strikes Back (do I still need to write SPOILERS for this?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937 "2011-01-09T01:40:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/1 "2011-01-09T01:40:22Z")
Was Luke intending to kill himself by jumping off the ledge, or did he plan to escape by going through the vents or what? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/2 "2011-01-09T01:43:17Z")
Good question. I’d say “Here’s hoping! I will trust the Force and not join the Dark Side!” is about as close to a plan as he had. He was obviously right. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolas\_Bourbaki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@Nicolas\_Bourbaki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicolas_Bourbaki)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/3 "2011-01-09T01:43:38Z")
I always assumed he decided to kill himself rather than be captured. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/4 "2011-01-09T01:50:22Z")
As far as I’m concerned it was obviously an attempted suicide. Fortunately luck (the Force) was on his side but I don’t think he expected to survive when he let go. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/5 "2011-01-09T02:10:12Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’d say “Here’s hoping! I will trust the Force and not join the Dark Side!” is about as close to a plan as he had. I haven’t really thought about it, but this is also what I’ve felt he was doing. He sacrifices himself so he can’t be a part of Vader’s proposed plans, but he may also have had a hint of Force-prescience, giving him some confidence that there were possibilities of survival. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/6 "2011-01-09T02:12:25Z")
I think it’s deliberately vague. Luke has no way past Vader; he’s beaten. So he simply lets go… the exact advice given to him at the end of Star Wars by Obi-Wan’s ghost, although he takes it more literally. He was willing to die, but he didn’t seem hugely surprised when he didn’t. He had two paths, one into Vader’s arms, one to let go, and he chose to let go. That moment fundamentally defines Luke Skywalker. He isn’t always perfect - he’s impetuous, whiny, and often doesn’t think very far ahead. But he’s good. He’s incorruptible. Power doesn’t interest him. He always chooses what’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/7 "2011-01-09T02:20:30Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Good question. > > I’d say “Here’s hoping! I will trust the Force and not join the Dark Side!” is about as close to a plan as he had. > > He was obviously right. Actually, he was left. His right hand having been cut off moments earlier. Somehow that joke was funnier when it was about Buster Bluth… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/8 "2011-01-09T03:14:42Z")
I think Luke was prepared to die. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/9 "2011-01-09T05:07:03Z")
Weird. I always saw that scene as accepting death rather than Vader. It’s weird to think that it might have been an intentional escape route. Eh - to me, that seems to make the scene a bit less powerful. I think I like it better the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/10 "2011-01-09T05:40:10Z")
Hey, did you know the movie was directed by Irvin Kershner? That guy did such a goo job on Robocop 2. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/11 "2011-01-09T06:12:23Z")
I don’t think Luke wanted to die when he jumped, but I’m pretty sure he expected to. ---
**Author:** ![Student\_Driver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3da27b/32.png) [@Student\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Student_Driver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/12 "2011-01-09T06:20:48Z")
Pity the whole meaning was changed in the Special Edition when Lucas changed it so that the ledge let go first. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/13 "2011-01-09T06:54:53Z")
> [@Student\_Driver](#): > > Pity the whole meaning was changed in the Special Edition when Lucas changed it so that the ledge let go first. Could be worse. I heard Steven Spielberg thought light sabers were too violent, and tried to convince Lucas to replace them with feather dusters. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/14 "2011-01-09T13:13:56Z")
> [@Student\_Driver](#): > > Pity the whole meaning was changed in the Special Edition when Lucas changed it so that the ledge let go first. Wait, is this serious? :mad: Anyway, I’m not saying anything new, but I always thought that the only thing Luke knew at that point was that he was definitely not going to join up with Vader. He didn’t want to die but he was willing for it to come to that. He probably had some subconscious bit of force-prescience going on too. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/15 "2011-01-09T13:48:41Z")
It’s not a suicide attempt, as he hangs on when he reaches the bottom. I can’t remember it that clearly, but doesn’t he then have a spot of telepathy with Leia, resulting in his rescue? As far as I can work out, Luke rejects Vader by taking the only path available to him. He doesn’t plan to die, but is prepared to. I don’t think his escape plan is pre-meditated, I don’t think he realises he can call Leia until he’s at the bottom (else, why not call her before dropping, and give them more time to reach him?). ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/16 "2011-01-09T13:51:56Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Was Luke intending to kill himself by jumping off the ledge, or did he plan to escape by going through the vents or what? Methinks with all the emotional tumult bubbling over in his noggin’–having his hand severed, finding out about Darth Daddy–he problably didn’t _think_ a lot before doing what he did. It was a choice of principles or power, and the power scared him. So in the spur of the moment, down he plummeted! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/17 "2011-01-09T14:05:49Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Actually, he was left. His right hand having been cut off moments earlier. > > Somehow that joke was funnier when it was about Buster Bluth… But if either hand had been cut off, he would still have one left. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/18 "2011-01-09T15:33:40Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > It’s not a suicide attempt, as he hangs on when he reaches the bottom. > > … > > I don’t think his escape plan is pre-meditated, I don’t think he realises he can call Leia until he’s at the bottom (else, why not call her before dropping, and give them more time to reach him?). Of course he hangs on when he reaches the bottom; he’s escaped Vader by this point. He leaped to his death in order to escape Vader, but happened to survive. He likely expected to just go splat in that huge chamber he was fighting Vader in. But now that he’s escaped Vader he can look for a way to get out of his current jam. He doesn’t call Leia immediately- first he tries to climb back into the tube but the hatch seals itself. It’s only when he thinks he’s completely fucked that he, in desperation, tries calling out for Leia. ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/19 "2011-01-09T15:43:00Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > But if either hand had been cut off, he would still have one left. That’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937/20 "2011-01-09T16:28:04Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Hey, did you know the movie was directed by Irvin Kershner? > That guy did such a goo job on Robocop 2. In fact, _Empire_ was pretty much the only good film he ever directed, but it is a great one, if perhaps only accidentally. The climactic fight between Vader and Luke, culminating in Vader’s reveal and the severing of Luke’s hand was one of the most utterly shocking and visceral moments in movie history, and despite now being a cultural meme still carries a lot of weight in the context of the film (as is Solo being frozen in carbonite). It’s a pity that _Return of the Jedi_ was largely such a disappointment. Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-empire-strikes-back-do-i-still-need-to-write-spoilers-for-this/566937.md?page=2)