# The end all be all Firefly thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 5, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582 "2004-02-05T00:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/61 "2004-02-23T21:29:38Z")
> [@kasuo](#): > > Is it due to: > > Trash - having some Mal nudity? > Heart of Gold - suggestive bj? [spoiler] Yes on the nudity; in Heart of Gold, I thought the prostitute killing the father of her illegitimate child could “be disturbing to young viewers”. It was cool as hell, though. 🙂 Missed the fellatio. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Lao\_Tsu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lao\_Tsu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lao_Tsu)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/62 "2004-02-23T21:41:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I wonder if Trash and the one with the prostitutes (both outstanding episodes) aren’t part of the reason for cancellation. I’ve thought this may be the case, too. Did Fox deliberately kill this series because they didn’t have the guts to have a controversial hit on their hands? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/63 "2004-02-23T21:42:12Z")
> [@kasuo](#): > > About Trash and HoG, I was kinda bugged by how those eps turned out. I mean, compared to {OoG, Ariel and WS}, these eps just seemed sloppy. I guess with those previous 3 eps being the gems of the show and FOX’s constant put-down of the show, it was hard to maintain that level of excitement. I liked “Trash” alright, but I thought “Heart of Gold” was actually pretty bad. Watching that guy race around in his hover car with his fancy laser gun, being chased by Mal on horseback… it just all seemed very Battlestar: Galactica to me. Very hokey. ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/64 "2004-02-23T21:53:14Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > [spoiler] Yes on the nudity; in Heart of Gold, I thought the prostitute killing the father of her illegitimate child could “be disturbing to young viewers”. > > It was cool as hell, though. 🙂 > > Missed the fellatio. > [/spoiler] It was at the scene where one of the girls warned the Evil Man[sup]TM[/sup] that the HoG was going to defend itself with some help from Serenity’s crew. You don’t end up seeing any of the fellating but I’m sure that the music playing as the girl is getting down on her knees and the look on the guy’s face strongly suggests it. > [@Miller](#): > > I liked “Trash” alright, but I thought “Heart of Gold” was actually pretty bad. Watching that guy race around in his hover car with his fancy laser gun, being chased by Mal on horseback… it just all seemed very Battlestar: Galactica to me. Very hokey. Yeah, I think we can agree to that one being a stinker. I’m glad they made the last-minute change from airing HoG to OiS. By the way, **yosemitebabe** finish the series so I can stop using spoiler boxes! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/65 "2004-02-24T03:54:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Watching that guy race around in his hover car with his fancy laser gun, being chased by Mal on horseback. I _liked_ that, especially “check battery”. I’m the guy who complains about the black powder pistols and the lack of wooden cell phone towers, dammit! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/66 "2004-02-24T17:00:45Z")
Okay, I bought my own set of _ **Firefly** _ DVDs yesterday; I’ll be returning my friend’s set back to him this Saturday. I don’t know why FOX would be shy about showing a little tush; ABC survived it just fine, and without FOX’s established reputation for “pushing the envelope” a bit. I think that the execution scene near the end of _Heart of Gold_ was a tad rough for network, though, however “sanitized” it may have been (head wounds bleed a lot, and close range gunshots to the head tend to “splatter”). Of course, she may not have shot him in the head. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/67 "2004-02-24T20:37:30Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Of course, she may not have shot him in the head. Is that a double entendre? ---
**Author:** ![Bumbazine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbazine/32/362_2.png) [@Bumbazine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbazine)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/68 "2004-02-24T21:01:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > -snip- I thought “Heart of Gold” was actually pretty bad. -snip- . If you look on the backs of the CD holders where they list the authors of each episode and you’ll see that “Heart of Gold” was written by someone named Brett Matthews who didn’t write any of the other episodes, and hopefully would never have written anything ever again. I thought HoG stunk. First of all, setting up for the defense of the brothel, why didn’t Mal tell Jayne _“Set up here and when the bad guys ride over the hill, shoot Rance. (head bad guy). Shoot him several times.” Make sure he’s dead._ That probably would have put an end to the hostilities right there. It’s exactly what I would have done and what I expected Mal to do. Secondly, and even more annoyingly, we had the worked to death cliche of: ‘new love interest of the main character has to die’. I \*\*hate \*\* that! Gah! Matthews is a hack! With the exception of that one episode, _Firefly_ was my favorite new series since _Brimstone_. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/69 "2004-02-24T22:01:41Z")
**carnivorousplant:** heh-heh…not intentionally, no. I was actually thinking a center-mass chest shot destroying his heart, even if he was put in the classic “execution” position. Besides, I don’t think blowing off his…_head_…would have been instantly lethal. I would imagine that that would entail much bleeding, screaming and writhing about before death from blood loss/shock. But I’m just guessing here. I agree that, tactically speaking, _HoG_ blew, and that I don’t really see Mal, Zoe or Jayne being intimidated by a whacko religious homicidal fruitcake, even one with a laser pistol. Every combat vet _knows_ just how fragile people are, and that the baddest MoFo bleeds just like any other mere mortal if you put a couple of bullets in them. _And_ that if you nail the “leaders,” the troopies often lose the heart to fight. The only thing that I think Mal may have been _concerned_ about was what kind of numbers (of hired guns) that Rance Burgess could assemble, what we in the military called an “unfavorable correltaion of forces.” Which is not something he could have picked up in his brief meeting with Burgess in town. At least, it wasn’t covered in the dialogue. Of course, Mal may have had some concerns about being “hired killers;” his proposition to Inara was to “explain” to Burgess the facts of life, not necessarily to fight Burgess and his soldiers to death. Mal seems the sort to recognize the moral differences between killing because you have to (under certain circumstances) and killing for profit or pleasure, and with being somewhat concerned about where that line is drawn. All-in-all, I think _HoG_ was a decent enough episodic concept, executed unwell. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/70 "2004-02-24T22:28:35Z")
Actually, I got to thinking, and just double-checked _HoG_. Pettiline (sp?) was clearly pointing the pistol directly at Rance’s head. Uh, the one _above_ his shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/71 "2004-02-24T22:31:30Z")
**Bumbazine** : Now THAT would have been cool. Especially if they’d had a big build up. Lots of tough sumbitches gathering together, getting high-tech new guns from Rance, riding out looking like the second coming of the Super Posse, and just as they crest the last hill before the whorehouse, Jayne takes out Rance and the five toughest looking guys from 2000 meters and the rest of them just scatter. Because numbers and equipment can’t top tactics. That would’ve been awesome. That would’ve been _Firefly_. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/72 "2004-02-28T10:57:45Z")
Damn, damn, damn. I’m coming to the home stretch with my _Firefly_ DVDs. Last DVD, half-way through _Heart of Gold_, only got one more episode to see (and also the special features). I’ve been _d-r-a-g-g-i-n-g_ this whole viewing experience out, because I just don’t want it to end! I am getting a real feel for the all characters now. I love them all. And I love some of the lines. Great lines. Damn, damn, damn. This is ending too soon. Just as I am getting to know everyone, they pull the rug from underneath me. (Well, there’s always the planned film to look forward to—eventually!) I’ll check back in when I’ve finished the last episode. Then I’ll finally be able to read this thread. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/73 "2004-02-29T05:22:19Z")
Okay. I’m back. I’ve got all the episodes under my belt now, have seen the deleted scenes and re-watched a few of the episodes with the commentary on. Therefore, no need for spoiler boxes for me (and I appreciate the gesture!) and obviously, I’m gonna be giving spoilers myself. I thought _Heart of Gold_ was okay, but I can’t say it was a favorite. The scene with the bad guy and all his henchmen driving across the desert was very _Road Warrior_. Very, very _Road Warrior._ It was a cleaned-up, non-mohawk version of the scenes with the evil bad guys from RW. I don’t think Shepherd Book had a “regular” life before he became a Shepherd. He tells Jayne that he’s never had sex, _ever_. I don’t see why he’d lie about this. (If he hadn’t been a virgin, he could have alluded to “sowing wild oats” as a youngster—before he became a Shepherd—and left it at that.) So, if Book is being truthful about never having sex (which I think he is) then that means that even when he was not a Shepherd, he either lived a particular life that probably had some moral code that dictated he remain celibate, at least as long as he’s unmarried. (And he says in _Serenity_, a few times, “I never married.” Like that was an important detail to him.) I’m not sure what his background might be, but it’s obviously unusual. Perhaps he started out as a Shepherd (or some member of a sect that advocated celibacy), and he went off to do “secret missions,” (which would give him that rich, mysterious background) or something. Interesting . . . Damn. I knew that Simon and Kaylee never kissed, but they got _so close_ in _Objects in Space._ Damn. By the end of the series, I _really_ liked Simon a lot. And he was such a little stuffed-shirt weenie in the start, I never thought I’d warm up to him. I love Jayne. He’s an absolute hoot. (“I’ll be in my bunk.”) I also don’t think he’s dumb, just highly competent in a narrow range of things. I’m also disappointed that nothing much happened with Mal and Inara (except for that one-sided, furtive kiss in _Our Mrs. Reynolds_). Of course, we all know that they adore each other, but it’s hard to figure out how their relationship could work out. And by the end of the last episode she was making sounds about leaving, so _something_ was obviously going to change there. (How were they going to prevent her from leaving?) River became a really interesting character, instead of just a whacked-out annoyance. Kaylee always will be one of my favorites (it’s a tie between her and Book). When I saw _Serenity,_ I hadn’t paid attention to who was who and didn’t know which actors were regulars. So when she got shot, I figured that maybe she’d die. And I thought, “Damn! The best character, and they’re going to kill her in the pilot. How typical.” Imagine my delight when I discovered that she was a regular. Wash and Zoe also were always great. I thought Wash was not much at the start, but by the end I adored him as well. What a sweetie. And of course Zoe is the epitome of cool. Well, that’s all the rambling from me for now. ---
**Author:** ![Osip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4491bb/32.png) [@Osip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osip)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/74 "2004-02-29T14:53:28Z")
I found that in “Bushwacked” The feds while strict, (and dressed in starship troopers armor 🙂 ) were not complete bastards. To bad really, because it would have been interesting to have the crew “bound by law” and have them stumble across Book’s Ident card. I think Blue Sun was going to be the Big Bad Corperate bad guys in future series. Love the word Rut 🙂 is my new favorite word! By the end of the series I finally concluded who ever did the casting did a fantastic job. I was disapointed in the scavanger captian in “out of Gas”. Mal was obviously bleeding and seriously wounded. If I had been him, back up into the airlock, and watch in the window till Mal left or passed out, cut my way in and the take the ship. I also agree in “heart of Gold” Jayne should have just locked on the bad guy and taken him out at the start of the firefight. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/75 "2004-03-01T04:11:35Z")
Okay, I’ve finally gotten through the entire series. I can officially be bitter that this awesome show was cancelled! First of all, _Trash_ now has a very special place in my heart thanks to Nekkid Mal. There are seriosuly not enough shows that feature that. And then shirtless Simon in _OiS_? Man, am I easy to please. I agree about the hokiness that people see in _Heart of Gold_. Honestly, I don’t really like the developing Inara/Mal relationship that much. It seems very cliché for this show, and Inara crying over Mal was a little bit too “Willow in the bathroom” for me. On the other hand, there were lots of guns, which made it up for me somewhat, even if the bad guy was riding around in Luke Skywalker’s speeder. Now, _The Message_, on the other hand, is one of my favorite episodes of Joss TV ever. It’s just awesome in so many ways. I wish this had ended up being the series finale, since I was somewhat underwhelmed by _Objects in Space_. Which isn’t to say that I didn’t like it, it just didn’t seem very series-closure-y to me (and I know there’s a reason for that). The part with River on the ship was a total hoot, though. I totally believed the ship-meld thing. But what’s up with taking Simon out of his western doctor’s outfit and sticking him in that Calvin Klein sweater? I like my Simon in a shirt and vest, thank you very much. Also, I initially didn’t like Kaylee at all, because I couldn’t help but see her as an annoying Willow, but I ended up liking her a lot by the end of the series. “Look. They’ve got boy whores. Isn’t that thoughtful?” ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/76 "2004-03-01T14:24:08Z")
We all know that the _Firefly_ move is (supposedly) in the works, but here’s some more concrete evidence of it: From [this fan site:](http://www.fireflymovie.com/news.html) > [@](#): > > **NEWS** > February 21, 2004 > > Our movie is looking more and more likely by the day. Universal has added “Serenity” to the coming soon section of their site. Also I checked for the domain [www.serenitymovie.com](http://www.serenitymovie.com) (yes I was trying to buy it up), and lo an behold it’s already owned by Universal Studios! Shy guy: Yes, seeing Simon shirtless was a treat indeed. I am liking him more and more. I never anticipated that at the beginning of the series. Never. He was just a personality-free pretty boy at the beginning, but by the end of the series he was this really attractive, interesting character. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/77 "2004-03-01T20:07:51Z")
I’ve been showing the DVDs to a friend over the weekend, and seeing these episodes again brought to mind some things I hadn’t thought of before. Mal and Inarra: I don’t Mal calls Inarra whore because he disapproves. I think it’s more that he has a serious dislike of the upper crust and loves to puncture their balloons when opportunity presents. He can’t really understand how a Companion can be considered upper crust, and he still seethes sometimes when remembering how she bargained him down for the shuttle with the reason that she would bring “reputation” to Serenity. Mal wanted to earn Serenity’s reputation on his own merits. Book: I think he’s closely related, as in brother or son, to one of the most powerful members of the Alliance, explaining his VIP status. He’s the “white sheep” of the family, who didn’t feel he fit in with the upper crust, and left to study spirituality in a monastery, thinking he would find life’s answers there. When he realized he needed more, he decided the best way to understand his place in the 'verse and God’s role for him was to go out to seek it, and Serenity seemed like just the thing. Serenity’s voyages are not for sightseeing. This way, he gets to see the dark underbelly of life and understand more of what he needs to do to fulfil his role for God. Kaylee is a doll and none of you can have her. She’s mine. Jayne is a viper in Serenity’s bosom, but after a couple of bites, he’s largely been defanged. For some reason, I think he’s eventually going to get River knocked up, and it will be her idea. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/78 "2004-03-01T20:30:36Z")
I’ve been thinking about Book. What if the shepherds are somewhat like the medieval Church? A place where, amongst other things, the Rich and Powerful families can send their younger (i.e., non-inheriting) sons. Let’s say Book isn’t just _any_ “Rich and Powerful” family member, but a member of the Firefly equivalent of the medieval Medici family. Book has then been in a monastery pretty much all of his life. Oh sure, he’d have some status as a younger son of a minor branch of the Medicis, but he’d pretty much just be a monk. Until, of course, the Medicis suffer a series of political setbacks and assassinations. And suddently Book finds himself the “last man standing” with some very powerful enemies. So he books it. (Sorry about the pun). What is interesting is that although he would have some very powerful (and to date unknown) enemies out there waiting for him, he would also have some “old family allies” that could yet emerge from the woodwork … ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/79 "2004-03-01T21:28:53Z")
The problem I have with **Ponder** and **Knowed** ’s ideas about Book’s background is that it doesn’t accout for his martial skills. He knows hand to hand combat, and is a crack shot with an assault rifle. Neither of these are skills a Shepherd is supposed to have, if we can judge from the reactions of those around him when he demonstrates those skills. So if he’s always been a Shepherd, when and why did he pick up those skills? ---
**Author:** ![Innanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecd19e/32.png) [@Innanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innanna)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582/80 "2004-03-01T21:36:49Z")
I love how Book explains away his being a crack shot-- that he used to hunt rabbits at the Abbey. Perhaps they were Teletubbie giant mutant rabbits, which explains his hand-to-hand skills as well? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-all-be-all-firefly-thread/227582.md?page=5)