# The end of "Cats in the Cradle" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693 "2010-10-10T17:13:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/21 "2010-10-10T19:24:42Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > > [@Frank](#): > > > > Kind of ruin the meter, wouldn’t it? > > > > “The new job’s a hassle and Tiffany, Heather, Cody, Dylan, Dermot, Jacob, Jordan, Taylor, Brittany, Wesley, Rumer, Scout, Cassidy, Zoe, Chloe, Max, Hunter, Kendall, Caitlin, Noah, Sasha, Morgan, Kyra, Ian, Lauren, Qbert, and Phil have the flu” > > Not only that, if you lose the word ‘flu’ at the end of the line, you lose the rhyme with the next verse. > > “Well, Bobby and Betty have the flu, and the new job’s a hassle > But it was sure nice talkin’ to you, dad. It’s been sure nice talkin’ to you.” > > And Chapin is hardly Noel Coward or Lorenz Hart when it comes to clever lyrics. He’s a storyteller, not a lyricist. I doubt he’d have been able to rhyme “hassle” to anything that fit the next line. Well, hell _I’m_ not Noel Coward or Lorenz Hart, and I can do that.. _Well, Bobby and Betty have the flu and the new job’s a hassle But stop by next time you’re near the castle, ('cause a neat metaphor for my home is a castle.)_ Hah? Hah? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/22 "2010-10-10T19:49:28Z")
It seems pretty clear that the son grew up to be like the father - too wrapped up in trying to make life work to stop and appreciate life. > [@](#): > > And as I hung up the phone it occurred to me > He’d grown up just like me > My boy was just like me I’m not even sure he is meant to be a selfish bastard - just one who realized his priorities a little too late. It is not uncommon for us all to think that there will be time to do the important things “some day.” ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/23 "2010-10-10T19:50:25Z")
[This Northern Ireland PSA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkRJvfe3yDQ)put an interesting spin on it. ---
**Author:** ![25.1327\_Octopi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/ecb155/32.png) [@25.1327\_Octopi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/25.1327_Octopi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/24 "2010-10-10T20:02:33Z")
I read the Thread title as _The End of “Cat’s Cradle”._ Now that is an ending I would like explained. (Whoops! not intending to derail the thread with that comment) ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/25 "2010-10-10T21:30:15Z")
mr chapin’s wife wrote the word to “cats in the cradle”. she was trying to show him that if he didn’t spend more time with the kids that they would never know him and that the cycle wouldn’t break. mr chapin penned the chorus and added the music. it was a very good thing she wrote this; as after she gave him the poem he started to take his kids with him on tour. one or two would go with him during the school year and rotate out weeks, then on school breaks the whole family would go. i remember reading this in his bio book, and thinking good thing he did that, 'cause he died in a car accident when his kids were young and they wouldn’t have had many memories of him. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/26 "2010-10-10T21:36:13Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > > [@Fenris](#): > > > > Dad’s slaving away putting food on the table and putting a roof over the brat’s head and because dad doesn’t have time THAT MINUTE to take indulge junior, junior decides he’s being rejected and passive-aggressively takes it out on dad years later. Hint: adults. have. to. work. So, yeah, I think the author’s intent was exactly with what the OP suggested\*, but it says more about the author than it does about normal parent/child relationships. > > I don’t think the kid’s being any more of a dink than the dad, frankly. I mean, the kid’s slaving away to keep food on the table and a roof over his sick children’s heads and because he doesn’t have time THAT MINUTE to indulge the old man, dude decides he’s being rejected. And you’d think he’d certainly understand better than anyone else that adults have to work. > > I also think you’re missing a pretty important element in the song–it wasn’t so much that Dad couldn’t take time for the kid right that minute, but that he couldn’t say when or how he would have time. It’s a massive difference. My dad worked 10-12 hour days, and for several years he was out of town 90% of the time. And like you, I never thought he didn’t love me or was ignoring me. Because even though he almost never could drop everything to do stuff with me right that second, I knew that he would get to me as soon as he had everything that absolutely _had_ to be done was done. Sometimes that meant he wound up doing the things he’d had planned late at night when he wanted to be sleeping, sometimes it meant those things just didn’t happen. It’s different from the song. _A lot_ different. Those are remarkably good points–I’ve reconsidered and I agree with you. 🙂 (I still think a lot of Chapin’s stuff is whiney, but well written though. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![KinkiNipponTourist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e9bcb4/32.png) [@KinkiNipponTourist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KinkiNipponTourist)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/27 "2010-10-10T21:44:30Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > Amy has chlamydia, and the new job’s a bitch > But this song will make me rich, dad > Your neglect will make me rich. > > SSG (P) Schwartz FTW! ---
**Author:** ![Walkabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walkabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walkabout)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/28 "2010-10-10T22:02:24Z")
I see it as “what goes around comes around”. The dad’s inattention to his son when he was younger has come back to bite him on the ass - other things are more important. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/29 "2010-10-10T22:49:44Z")
> [@Walkabout](#): > > I see it as “what goes around comes around”. The dad’s inattention to his son when he was younger has come back to bite him on the ass - other things are more important. I think we all agree on that point. But the question is whether the son is rejecting his father’s values or repeating them. Will he ignore his children the way his father ignored him? Or will he break the cycle by giving his children the attention he never received himself? I mentioned the song “Father of Mine” above. That song makes it clear that the singer is rejecting his father’s example: _“Now I’m a grown man/With a child of my own/And I swear, I’ll never let her know/All the pain I have known.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Walkabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walkabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walkabout)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/30 "2010-10-11T01:44:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Walkabout](#): > > > > I see it as “what goes around comes around”. The dad’s inattention to his son when he was younger has come back to bite him on the ass - other things are more important. > > I think we all agree on that point. But the question is whether the son is rejecting his father’s values or repeating them. Will he ignore his children the way his father ignored him? Or will he break the cycle by giving his children the attention he never received himself? > > I mentioned the song “Father of Mine” above. That song makes it clear that the singer is rejecting his father’s example: _“Now I’m a grown man/With a child of my own/And I swear, I’ll never let her know/All the pain I have known.”_ I don’t think it’s relevant in this song. This is just about the old man being lonely and forgotten in his old age, due to his earlier actions. The son has given up on him. I don’t think you can really answer what the son’s focus is now, other than he cares more about his job and his kids than his father. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/31 "2010-10-11T01:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > I think we all agree on that point. But the question is whether the son is rejecting his father’s values or repeating them. Will he ignore his children the way his father ignored him? Or will he break the cycle by giving his children the attention he never received himself? I don’t think that the song answers this question. I’ve always interpreted it as saying that actions speak louder than words. The son learned that a proper man will always put work first, then his own interests, and then, if there’s any time left over, maybe spend it on his family. So when Son is a college student home on break, he doesn’t really want to spend time with the old man, he just wants the car keys to go off and do his own thing. And later still, of course, the son can’t make the time to see the father, because of his own job and kids…though we don’t know how much he interacts with his own kids. I notice, too, that Dad doesn’t offer to go visit the son, he seems to expect the son to visit him. Maybe it’s finances, maybe he can’t travel well now. Or maybe it’s just that he’s STILL incredibly self-centered, and thinks that if he’s got the time now, his son should drop everything and come running to see him. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/32 "2010-10-11T01:53:44Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > > [@Meltdown](#): > > > > My interpretation is slightly different. I don’t think the son is pissed off at his father, I think he just grew up to be a self-centered bastard like his father. He’s not angry, he just doesn’t want to interrupt his routine. > > Not only that but Dad belatedly realizes that was how he raised his son. > > _“And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me; he’d grown up just like me. My boy was just like me”_ They always grow up to be like you, it is up to you what kind of you you want them to be. Well not always but sons in most cases do want to be like their dads, until they are about 13 or so then they think we are sooo not cool. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/33 "2010-10-11T02:11:35Z")
**Lynn** - The song doesn’t say that he expects the kid to come see him - the line reads “I called him up just the other day, I said ‘I’d like to see you if you don’t mind’, he said I’d love to Dad, if I could find the time.” if I called up my sister and said “I’d like to see you”, I wouldn’t expect her to make the trip to me, I’d go see her. My view is the father neglected to make time for his kid’s childhood, and the kid has “grown up just like him”, too busy to see his dad or probably spend time with Janey and Johnny. he doesn’t hate his dad - “But it’s sure nice talking to you, Dad. It’s been sure nice talking to you.” My father was a construction foreman, and when I was young he worked out of town during the week and came home on the weekends. But when he was home, we were with him. We helped him with things around the house, he’d take us to his job sites. Presently my brother is a salesman. he’s on the road for a couple weeks at a time. But when he’s home, he’s truly _with_ his boys. When he can, he’ll bring a kid with him for day trips ad he takes them to the skate park or martial arts practice. It’s not always easy, but a good dad makes time for their kids. There’s more to being a parent then putting food on the table and clothes on their backs. Kids learn what they grow up with. StG ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/34 "2010-10-11T07:36:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Meltdown](#): > > > > My interpretation is slightly different. I don’t think the son is pissed off at his father, I think he just grew up to be a self-centered bastard like his father. He’s not angry, he just doesn’t want to interrupt his routine. > > This is my view also. The son isn’t angry at the father and trying to pay him back. The son has become the father and he’s indifferent towards his family just like the father was. I don’t think he’s so much “indifferent” as “so centered on his role as economic provider that he doesn’t have time for ‘the cutey-pie emotional stuff.’” They care about their family, but for them that care takes the form of work-work-work; even when they happen to be at home, they’re distant. But yeah, there isn’t much to interpret. The son is just like his dad - which is something too many dads long for, until they realize what it means. My mother is always sighing how she wishes I was more like her… only, she can’t stand her own mother, and that’s one thing we do have in common for sure but which I don’t believe she includes in her wishes. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/35 "2010-10-11T10:24:32Z")
I just always took it to mean that the son was a chip of the old block, or that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. The son had grown up to have the same priorities as the father, and the father was only just then realising how screwed up those particular priorities were. ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/36 "2010-10-11T15:29:30Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > > [@Meltdown](#): > > > > My interpretation is slightly different. I don’t think the son is pissed off at his father, I think he just grew up to be a self-centered bastard like his father. He’s not angry, he just doesn’t want to interrupt his routine. > > Not only that but Dad belatedly realizes that was how he raised his son. > > _“And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me; he’d grown up just like me. My boy was just like me”_ I always thought the father was WRONG at the end. He didn’t necessarily grow up like you. You were a shit that never even played catch with your son, he’s just paying your ass back. He might be a decent guy, i.e., he cares about his kid with the flu. You think the father would’ve cared. . . no f’ing way! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/37 "2010-10-11T15:46:18Z")
I don’t think there’s any malice or vindictiveness indended by the kid, just a complete emotional separation resulting from the father’s lifelong abstraction and distracted distance. The kid wasn’t trying to hurt the father, he just no longer had any attachment to him or time for him. The son isn’t angry, there just isn’t any bond left. The father feels himself getting blown off the way he always blew the kid off (and he never had any malice when he blew the kid off either), and realizes the kid is “just like me.” No hurt was ever intended by either party, the separation was just a result of neglected priorities and unconscious self-absorbtion. This song always makes me want to go and go hug my own kids. To me, it’s just a reminder of what actually matters, and how easy it is to forget that, even without any ill intent. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/38 "2010-10-11T16:08:18Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > mr chapin’s wife wrote the word to “cats in the cradle”. she was trying to show him that if he didn’t spend more time with the kids that they would never know him and that the cycle wouldn’t break. > > mr chapin penned the chorus and added the music. > > it was a very good thing she wrote this; as after she gave him the poem he started to take his kids with him on tour. one or two would go with him during the school year and rotate out weeks, then on school breaks the whole family would go. FWIW, here’s what Wikipedia has to say about the song’s origin: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Verities & Balderdash (1974, #4), released soon after, was much more successful, bolstered by the chart-topping hit single “Cat’s in the Cradle”, based upon a poem by his wife; Sandra Chapin had written the poem inspired by her first husband’s relationship with his father and a country song she heard on the radio. > > When Harry’s son Josh was born, he got the idea to put music to the words and recorded the result. “Cat’s in the Cradle” was Chapin’s only number one hit, shooting album sales skyward and making him a millionaire. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/39 "2010-10-11T16:24:37Z")
If Croce was an NPR fan the lyric might have gone, \*“Well, Bobby and Betty have the flu, and the new job’s a hassle The next time you call you might hear Carl Kasell.” \* ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693/40 "2010-10-11T16:34:58Z")
Did you ever hear of the saying, “Life is what happens, while your busy making other plans”? This is what it’s about. The father was neglectful but not purposely so, and by the time he finally had the time for his son, his son was now in the same position he had once been. It’s about patterns of behaviour repeating themselves over generations. This was a common theme in the 70s, with the “find yourself, me-type” psychology that was so common in the 70s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-cats-in-the-cradle/556693.md?page=3)