# The End of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" at Hand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018 "2005-04-12T21:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/21 "2005-04-12T23:31:07Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Couldn’t the President (and I’m talking in general here–I don’t see Bush doing this or any first-termer of either party) just force it one way or the other by executive order, like Truman forced integration? No. Don’t ask, don’t tell was passed by Congress, and an executive order can’t be issued that violates the law. Before the Don’t Ask law was passed, the President would have been able to. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/22 "2005-04-12T23:41:53Z")
I am all for female presidents, but I hope we don’t have O Fortuna Rice run for prez. Why? Because she’s unmarried. We can’t have a president who goes out on dates. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/23 "2005-04-12T23:49:27Z")
What I would _really hate_ to see is the welcoming of gays/lesbians while we’re at war, followed by a mass dismissal after peace breaks out. There is historical precedent for various not-liked groups being encouraged to sign on when warm bodies/cannon fodder is needed then disposed of when no longer so essential. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/24 "2005-04-12T23:59:18Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > a gay Sergent with a purple star Maybe his Lieutenant’s not using enough astroglide. The award is a purple _heart_. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/25 "2005-04-13T00:01:11Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Duh. :smack: Let me rephrase that to say that Cheney (who I presume will run in 2008) will be seriously tarnished if Bush signed such a bill. Cheney has said several times that he’ll never run for President. And if he did his daughter would be a _way_ bigger issue than this could be. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/26 "2005-04-13T00:38:08Z")
Cheney made a good funny last week. At some speech, he categorically refused to run for President in 2008. But he did volunteer to lead the Republican search committee for their 2008 presidental candidate… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/27 "2005-04-13T00:45:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > What I would _really hate_ to see is the welcoming of gays/lesbians while we’re at war, followed by a mass dismissal after peace breaks out. There is historical precedent for various not-liked groups being encouraged to sign on when warm bodies/cannon fodder is needed then disposed of when no longer so essential. Yeah, that’s what I was thinking as well. Though not impossible, I do think it would still be pretty difficult to go backwards on this. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/28 "2005-04-13T00:49:09Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Couldn’t the President (and I’m talking in general here–I don’t see Bush doing this or any first-termer of either party) just force it one way or the other by executive order, like Truman forced integration? Quite possibly. Particularly if Bush let in people who openly admitted they were homosexuals, a later president would have trouble drumming them out. Of course, Bush isn’t so crazy as to do such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/29 "2005-04-13T01:00:14Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > The incumbent VP usually get the party nomination. I presume you are a Republican? As a Democrat myself, I consider the enelectability of Cheney in the general election a Good Thing. 🙂 Ewwww…no, I’m not a Republican. I just think that a Cheney candidacy is completely out of the question and would be a net increase in general pain because I’d have to go through an entire campaign season with Smugly Lizardlips out front and center all over the place… ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/30 "2005-04-13T01:44:11Z")
Yessir, this one’s a real coin tosser. On one hand you have rights natural dislike for the homosexual. On the other you have their love for patriotism and their need for warm bodies in Iraq. What the heck. I’ll be optimistic and think that this has a chance of passing. Now is not a good time to be turning away willing soldiers. I think that those in favor of it’s passing can make a really effective push. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/31 "2005-04-13T02:44:16Z")
But…but…if we start letting them risk their lives for their country, we may feel obligated to let them marry who they want… ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/32 "2005-04-13T03:00:04Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > But…but…if we start letting them risk their lives for their country, we may feel obligated to let them marry who they want… And given that gay marriage is hugely unpopular in the US (in Michigan where I live, a constitutional amandment banning it passed easily because of fear of activist judges), I can see this why the logic above would be good reason for many to oppose gays in the miltary. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/33 "2005-04-13T05:31:35Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > And given that gay marriage is hugely unpopular in the US (in Michigan where I live, a constitutional amandment banning it passed easily because of fear of activist judges), I can see this why the logic above would be good reason for many to oppose gays in the miltary. I suspect the biggest issue the DoD will encounter when (yes when it’ll happen eventually) gays and lesbians are allowed to serve openly will be the status of their partners? Will they be given the same benifits as military spouses? Will the military even recognize them as next of kin? There are issues like housing, pensions, etc that will need to be addressed. Or what if a gay/lesbian soldier doesn’t come home and gets a posthumous, will his/her partner be allowed to stand in during the presentation ceremony? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/34 "2005-04-13T12:22:42Z")
Well, the Defense of Marriage Act says that the Federal government may not recognize same sex spouses, so no, unless that law is changed as well. And seeing how DOMA was passed by a pretty wide bipartisan margin, we’re likely looking at no less than another decade before there might be the political will to change or repeal DOMA. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/35 "2005-04-13T12:40:39Z")
Let’s say “civil unions” get passed, and then a gay person dies heroically serving his country, I can easily see a ground swelling either overcoming reluctance to use the term, marriage, or inclusive language allowing soldiers partners to reap benefits of being married to a solider. Of course, with public opinion the way it is, such a scenario would probably take only a slightly shorter time then the Ravenman’s projected timeline of a decade, so… Just my 2…. Just where the \*\*¢۩۞₤∏™£ΔΏ \*\* is the symbol for cents? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/36 "2005-04-13T12:43:11Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Just where the \*\*¢۩۞₤∏™£ΔΏ \*\* is the symbol for cents? Silly! Discussions about homophobia NEVER make cents… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/37 "2005-04-13T13:29:06Z")
OK, now that the gays in the military issue is about to be settled (hopefully), what about the transgendered? The final frontier. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/38 "2005-04-13T13:57:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > What I would _really hate_ to see is the welcoming of gays/lesbians while we’re at war, followed by a mass dismissal after peace breaks out. That happens anyway. In both WWII and Vietnam, the military sort of turned a blind eye to homosexuality, only to crack down on it when the war ended. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/39 "2005-04-13T14:07:40Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > OK, now that the gays in the military issue is about to be settled (hopefully), what about the transgendered? The final frontier. I doubt that’ll happen for quite a while, honestly. There’s still more of a stigma about transgenderism than there is homosexuality, there are fewer transgendered people than homosexuals, and the transgendered don’t have an effecive lobby (while the gay rights groups do, supposedly, lobby for transgendered rights, they don’t really focus on them, or do an effective job). ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018/40 "2005-04-13T14:43:43Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > That happens anyway. In both WWII and Vietnam, the military sort of turned a blind eye to homosexuality, only to crack down on it when the war ended. And the Korean war. Think of Klinger from M_A_S\*H. The real problem today is that homosexuality doesn’t have the huge stigma it did back then. If the draft were reinstated today, we’d find half the young men in the country were gay. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-at-hand/299018.md?page=3)