# The end of religious discussion in GD **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240 "2008-04-21T15:41:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/181 "2008-04-23T13:46:48Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] OK, I went looking this time… Difficult thing to search for, so I looked for threads containing the word ‘Trinity’ (assuming some of these would be entirely internal discussions of doctrine, theology and belief, not ‘Does God Exist?’ threads), and looking for posts by DT, I found that in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=427690&page=2&pp=50&highlight=trinity) thread, he starts off on topic (albeit expressing a contrarian view), but by page 2, it’s pretty much an attack - here’s the post: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8771826&postcount=55](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8771826&postcount=55) I’m sure other examples could be found. Searching sucks at the moment though. Still, it isn’t happening in every single theology thread, or if it is, it isn’t **DT** every time. [/QUOTE] It was a bit of a hijack,but **Der Trihs** was a _very_ minor player in that little drama, and it certainly didn’t help when **kanicbird** kept insisting that there was nothing wrong with God wiping out whole towns. Also, notice that the hijack was easily stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/182 "2008-04-23T13:51:09Z")
And he’s not hijacking a reasonable discussion about theology there in that post from last year. He’s responding to a flat-out witnessing and even asks a question and makes a logical point about it. If you find him abrasive, consider that posts which insist that the Bible is literal truth are quite abrasive to those of us whom the Bible advocates murdering for God. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/183 "2008-04-23T13:59:38Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] It was a bit of a hijack,but **Der Trihs** was a _very_ minor player in that little drama, and it certainly didn’t help when **kanicbird** kept insisting that there was nothing wrong with God wiping out whole towns. Also, notice that the hijack was easily stopped. [/QUOTE] fair points. It certainly isn’t a case of the atheist leaping in with “First Post! God’s not real!” Given a better search function, I’m sure we could trawl up an example that fits the bill, but what would be the point? Fact is, if DT was a one-man wrecker of every theological thread, we wouldn’t need the search engine to find examples. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/184 "2008-04-23T14:38:56Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] fair points. It certainly isn’t a case of the atheist leaping in with “First Post! God’s not real!” Given a better search function, I’m sure we could trawl up an example that fits the bill, but what would be the point? Fact is, if DT was a one-man wrecker of every theological thread, we wouldn’t need the search engine to find examples. [/QUOTE] I don’t spend too much time in the religion threads in GD anymore, but you find this kind of thing sprinkled all over the SDMB, even in the most innoculous and uncontroversial religion-related threads imaginable. Liberal linked to [this comment](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9712805&postcount=61) earlier in this thread. And [here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=454085&highlight=lent) a thread I’m particularly fond of…it’s chock full of lovely comments, thrown out there for no good reason that I can see. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/185 "2008-04-23T14:57:13Z")
First example, from a titled " Religious songs that even an atheist can enjoy.", where an atheist says that at least religious music is a part of religion she likes. Not an attack, and barely a snark. Second example was a “What are you giving up for Lent” thread that turned silly, but I don’t recall seeing any complaints about it in the thread. Neither thread was in Great Debates, though, which is the topic of this thread. Where are the GD threads that were not designed to confront those who don’t believe, that atheists derailed? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/186 "2008-04-23T14:58:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] And [here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=454085&highlight=lent) a thread I’m particularly fond of…it’s chock full of lovely comments, thrown out there for no good reason that I can see. [/QUOTE] JFC. I know religious types tend to be touchy when their imaginary ox is being gored but if they take offense at any comments in that thread then we’re going to have to send out for a much bigger Whiny Bitches of The Year Award than we at the Worldwide Athiest Conspiracy Organisation have been budgeting for. People are mocking Lent in a thread set up to mock Lent. Supersize me those Oh Noes. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/187 "2008-04-23T15:05:00Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I don’t spend too much time in the religion threads in GD anymore, but you find this kind of thing sprinkled all over the SDMB, even in the most innoculous and uncontroversial religion-related threads imaginable. [/QUOTE] It happens everywhere - not just threads about religion - a question about configuring the Windows firewall might get a response to the effect “Windows sucks - buy a Mac![/install Linux]” ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/188 "2008-04-23T15:16:37Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] First example, from a titled " Religious songs that even an atheist can enjoy.", where an atheist says that at least religious music is a part of religion she likes. Not an attack, and barely a snark. Second example was a “What are you giving up for Lent” thread that turned silly, but I don’t recall seeing any complaints about it in the thread. Neither thread was in Great Debates, though, which is the topic of this thread. Where are the GD threads that were not designed to confront those who don’t believe, that atheists derailed? [/QUOTE] I would say that the first one is kinda sorta on topic, except that it didn’t answer the OP and was only thrown in there to make a point about religion. As far as that Lent thread goes, no, nobody complained in the thread, and for all I know, no one reported any posts…but that’s not really the point, is it? The point is that people derail threads about religion all the time, by coming in to comment on their negative opinion about religion in general, rather than actually discussing the thread topic. Even in an IMHO thread, which was not intended to be a debate of any kind. The off-topic posts ranged from the old-and-not-very-funny joke “I’m giving up religion! Har har!” to someone calling this Christian tradition “silly shit,” to someone challenging the subject of the thread as defeating the purpose of “pious abstentions.” You can dismiss it as a thread that “turned silly,” but can you really not see why this is an example of what we are talking about here? These comments do not address the thread topic except in the most tangential way, and they are needlessly negative on a subject of importance to the people the thread was actually targeted at. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/189 "2008-04-23T15:22:43Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] JFC. I know religious types tend to be touchy when their imaginary ox is being gored but if they take offense at any comments in that thread then we’re going to have to send out for a much bigger Whiny Bitches of The Year Award than we at the Worldwide Athiest Conspiracy Organisation have been budgeting for. People are mocking Lent in a thread set up to mock Lent. Supersize me those Oh Noes. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] That thread was set up to mock Lent? Look, as **Czarcasm** points out, no one complained, so your comment here is totally off-base, anyway. For that matter, I’m not complaining about it, only pointing it out as an example of what we’ve been discussing here. See, y’all aren’t getting it…it’s not about being offended…it’s about trying to discuss a particular specific topic regarding religion, and having it derailed by the “what does it matter, religion is all fantasyland hoo-ha anyway” crowd. It’s boring, it gets us nowhere, it has made me for one avoid most threads that have anything to do with any religion. [QUOTE=Mangetout] It happens everywhere - not just threads about religion - a question about configuring the Windows firewall might get a response to the effect “Windows sucks - buy a Mac![/install Linux]” [/QUOTE] Yeah, well, those folks are as annoying as all get-out, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/190 "2008-04-23T15:24:14Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] …to someone challenging the subject of the thread as defeating the purpose of “pious abstentions.”… [/QUOTE] That was me, wasn’t it? That wasn’t a dismissal of the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/191 "2008-04-23T15:27:36Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Yeah, well, those folks are as annoying as all get-out, too. [/QUOTE] Yeah, well, people don’t complain that they can’t talk about computers because they are being repressed. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/192 "2008-04-23T15:28:39Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] That was me, wasn’t it? That wasn’t a dismissal of the topic. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say you dismissed the topic, I said you challenged the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/193 "2008-04-23T15:29:47Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Yeah, well, people don’t complain that they can’t talk about computers because they are being repressed. [/QUOTE] I never said I was being repressed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/194 "2008-04-23T15:30:34Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Oh. You weren’t clear that you were retracting your statement. I got the impression that you were just declining to engage in any support of it. [/quote] Well, I am skeptical of psychology in general due to overmedication in our society, but I didn’t want to go into it based on that, and recognized that denying it as a science would get me nowhere in the debate. > [@](#): > > In my opinion, however, it really gets to the heart of that thread, and to some degree this one. You are supposedly one who is so able to listen and understand others’ positions, and you say you withdrew because I couldn’t grok yours. The point of that thread was whether religion could be a subject of scientific investigation. You express a completely baseless opinion about psychology (which I think could serve as a model for how religion, or at least some aspects of religion could be subjected to scientific investigation), an opinion which illustrates a profound lack of knowledge, but rather than follow up on it, you simply withdraw. Right, it was an ill-considered thing to say, so I backed off. What’s at issue here? > [@](#): > > Yet your story remains that I could not understand your position. Not on that particular point. But also, it’s important to note that you not understanding my position is as much about my ability to communicate my ideas as it is yours to receive it. However, I confused you with someone else. As for the Psychology thing, I do not stand behind the idea that it’s not science. Does that clarify for you? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/195 "2008-04-23T15:32:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I didn’t say you dismissed the topic, I said you challenged the topic. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. It was intended to be a _theological_ challenge though, rather than just an antagonistic one. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/196 "2008-04-23T15:35:22Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] See, y’all aren’t getting it…it’s not about being offended…it’s about trying to discuss a particular specific topic regarding religion, and having it derailed by the “what does it matter, religion is all fantasyland hoo-ha anyway” crowd. It’s boring, it gets us nowhere, it has made me for one avoid most threads that have anything to do with any religion. [/QUOTE] It’s a waste of time at this point. I invited both **Tubadiva** and **Ed Zotti** to stop by and weigh in on the issue. I haven’t heard from **Ed** but **TD** not only dismiised the whole thing out of hand,but then made a patently false statement regarding witnessing. Even **Czarcasm** is saying it’s bullshit even though you and he are now discussing the gist of my OP. I should have done more research but I was lazy and only provided the most current example and with \*\*lekatt \*\* involved, it just takes on a completely negative tone due to his constant harping about the NDE subject. At least there have been some viable points made on both sides of the fence. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/197 "2008-04-23T15:38:26Z")
Whenever someone brings up the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny or the Invisible Pink Unicorn in a theological discussion then you know they are not looking for serious debate and merely want to make fun of you. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/198 "2008-04-23T15:42:53Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Fair enough. It was intended to be a _theological_ challenge though, rather than just an antagonistic one. [/QUOTE] Fair enough on my side, too. It sounded a little…challenging, if you get my meaning, not just a point of curiosity. Usually, when someone uses the word “pious,” it’s not meant as a compliment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/199 "2008-04-23T15:43:43Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] It’s a waste of time at this point. I invited both **Tubadiva** and **Ed Zotti** to stop by and weigh in on the issue. I haven’t heard from **Ed** but **TD** not only dismiised the whole thing out of hand,but then made a patently false statement regarding witnessing. Even **Czarcasm** is saying it’s bullshit even though you and he are now discussing the gist of my OP. I should have done more research but I was lazy and only provided the most current example and with \*\*lekatt \*\* involved, it just takes on a completely negative tone due to his constant harping about the NDE subject. At least there have been some viable points made on both sides of the fence. [/QUOTE] It might have helped if you had found a _good_ example of your point, instead of using someone who has just posted [this response for a clarification of his beliefs.](I had a friend, long time friend, that told me he was caught in a beam of light coming down from a UFO when he was only 12 years old. His mother seeing it happening yelled for him to run, which he did very fast. The next night his mother saw an alien looking in the window at her and screamed. Everyone came running and watched the alien run into the woods and a UFO rise out of the woods and fly off. I had no reason to doubt this person, he had been honest with me from day one. Later that year I found a group of “Blue Book” reports and looked to see if there had been any sightings in the area where he lived. I found a full investigation of the event he had told me about with a dozen witnesses, and the final notation on the report, Unknown. They had found radiation coming from the landing site in the woods. Yes, I believe him, even though I have never seen a UFO personally. This world is full of events, happenings and stuff science will never know about. Do you know there are thousands of pictures of UFOs. Did you know they have DNA samples of Bigfoot. I had forgotten skeptical scientists don’t believe in anything unless science tells them to do so. Negative people miss out on so much of the fun in this world. I wouldn’t let anyone tell me what to believe and what not to. Study, read and learn or vegetate.) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240/200 "2008-04-23T15:45:56Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] See, y’all aren’t getting it…it’s not about being offended…it’s about trying to discuss a particular specific topic regarding religion, and having it derailed by the “what does it matter, religion is all fantasyland hoo-ha anyway” crowd. It’s boring, it gets us nowhere, it has made me for one avoid most threads that have anything to do with any religion. [/QUOTE] Yup. The point is not a complaint about “repression” (I myself don’t believe in any god and so I’m not being “repressed”), it is about a dumbing-down of debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-religious-discussion-in-gd/446240.md?page=11)