# The end of Teflon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 25, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084 "2012-11-25T18:39:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/1 "2012-11-25T18:39:56Z")
I was watching an infomercial on a magical new non-stick pan that mentioned there was a moratorium on the manufacture of PTFE coming in 2015. This is the first I’d heard of it. A little googling shows this is probably the case: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502041.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502041.html) There’s a TON of stuff I can think of, offhand, that use it…piston coatings, high pressure hydraulic lines, cookwear, non-stick fabrics. So is there anything in the wings looking to replace it? I’d hate to have to hoard all the non-stick frying pans I can get my hands on. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/2 "2012-11-25T18:53:52Z")
That article is from 2006 and references a ban to begin in 2010. I’m guessing they somehow got over it. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/3 "2012-11-25T18:56:29Z")
PTFE is such an important industrial product that I suspect we will be manufacturing and using it long after the last oil-fueled engine on earth has gone to a museum. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/4 "2012-11-25T19:02:31Z")
Also, it doesn’t say that Teflon itself will be phased out\* but rather a toxic chemical used in its production, similar to the removal of phthalates and lead from PVC or BPA from plastic bottles (actually, the last means no polycarbonate bottles at all, since BPA is actually the chemical that makes up the plastic). Of course, products made in China, which is to say most of what you buy, probably still use all of these chemicals. \*On further reading, they won’t eliminate PFOA, but ensure it isn’t released from the plastic or during manufacture, which is pretty much the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/5 "2012-11-25T19:28:14Z")
So which is worse, a “likely” carcinogen or a “probable” carcinogen? ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/6 "2012-11-25T20:03:34Z")
The linked article says that the makers of PTFE merely have to ensure that a certain chemical used in the manufacture of PTFE isn’t released into the environment or present in any PTFE products. Since the article in question is several years old and Teflon is still ubiquitous, I suspect they tweaked their manufacturing process to comply and kept chugging along. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/7 "2012-11-25T20:27:10Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > A little googling shows this is probably the case: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502041.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502041.html) A little _reading_ of the linked article shows - within the first two sentences - that Teflon is not going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/8 "2012-11-25T20:31:07Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > A little _reading_ of the linked article shows - within the first two sentences - that Teflon is not going anywhere. If PFOA is in “in the blood of 95 percent of Americans, including pregnant women. It has also been found in the blood of marine organisms and Arctic polar bears.” Seems like it’s a little late to do anything about it…and we’re all dead of cancer. ETA: And the infomercial was sewing disinformation to sell it’s product…not a surprise, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/9 "2012-11-25T21:01:06Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > If PFOA is in “in the blood of 95 percent of Americans, including pregnant women. It has also been found in the blood of marine organisms and Arctic polar bears.” > > Seems like it’s a little late to do anything about it…and we’re all dead of cancer. There’s a rather large grey area between “certainly fatal” and “harmless” you know. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/10 "2012-11-25T21:04:46Z")
Next you’ll be regailing me on the evils of DHMO! ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/11 "2012-11-25T21:33:00Z")
The 8 major manufacturers of PFOA and other long-chain perfluorinated compounds who participate in EPA’s “voluntary” stewardship agreement committed to reduce emissions of PFOA and other LCPFC’s by 95% by 2010, which they did, and to eliminate them by 2015, which they’re working on. Companies which are not part of the agreement will be regulated by EPA regulations, some of which are in place, and some of which may in place next year. This includes imports of perfluorochemicals and treated products. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/12 "2012-11-25T21:56:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There’s a rather large grey area between “certainly fatal” and “harmless” you know. Just tell the State of California [that](http://www.wtop.com/41/2501421/Carcinogen-creeps-up-in-food-and-coffee): > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON – Signs have been popping up recently throughout California warning people at coffee shops and restaurants that some products could contain a carcinogen. > > The signs say acrylamide is present in coffee, baked goods and other foods and drinks. Under Proposition 65, carcinogens and other compounds must be listed even if there are in trace amounts… > > …Karas says recent tests on animals showed that when exposed to **very high levels** [emphasis mine] of acrylamide, it can lead to cancer. But he says those are “much higher levels than we would ever be exposed to when eating.” (I have seen people joke about all of the “contains chemicals known to cause cancer” warnings on products sold in California - or even outside if they are sold nationally) ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/13 "2012-11-25T23:06:43Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > (I have seen people joke about all of the “contains chemicals known to cause cancer” warnings on products sold in California - or even outside if they are sold nationally) We re-shingled our roof with some kind of artificial slate product that is said to give a 50 year roof. Stamped on each piece was “Known to cause cancer in California.” Fortunately we don’t live in California, and I guess it doesn’t it doesn’t cause cancer here in Connecticut. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/14 "2012-11-25T23:19:26Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > We re-shingled our roof with some kind of artificial slate product that is said to give a 50 year roof. Stamped on each piece was “Known to cause cancer in California.” Fortunately we don’t live in California, and I guess it doesn’t it doesn’t cause cancer here in Connecticut. Wasn’t that the stuff that caused cancer in rats? Easy solution…don’t feed it to your rats. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/15 "2012-11-26T00:56:57Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Karas says recent tests on animals showed that when exposed to very high levels [emphasis mine] of acrylamide, it can lead to cancer. Everything causes cancer at high enough dosages\*, including water. You can’t extrapolate the effects of “very high levels” to very low levels over time very effectively. \*Extremely high doses of anything cause cell damage, which in return causes other cells to fission into new cells as part of the healing process. Since there’s a chance of a mutation that leads to cancer in every cell replication, high enough doses of anything will cause an increased chance of cancer simply because you are overloading the system and causing cells to replicate. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/16 "2012-11-26T01:12:29Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Wasn’t that the stuff that caused cancer in rats? Easy solution…don’t feed it to your rats. It’s funny, 'cause it’s true (at least in the case of saccharin.) [QUOTE=Wikipedia] However, in 2000, the warning labels were removed because scientists learned that rodents, unlike humans, have a unique combination of high pH, high calcium phosphate, and high protein levels in their urine.[19][20] One or more of the proteins that are more prevalent in male rats combine with calcium phosphate and saccharin to produce microcrystals that damage the lining of the bladder. Over time, the rat’s bladder responds to this damage by over-producing cells to repair the damage, which leads to tumor formation. As this does not occur in humans, there is no elevated bladder cancer risk. [/QUOTE] > **[Saccharin | Government regulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharin#Government_regulation)** > > Starting in 1907, the United States Food and Drug Administration began investigating saccharin as a result of the Pure Food and Drug Act. Harvey Wiley, then the director of the bureau of chemistry for the FDA, viewed it as an illegal substitution of a valuable ingredient, sugar, by a less valuable ingredient. In a clash that had career consequences, Wiley told President Theodore Roosevelt, "Everyone who ate that sweet corn was deceived. He thought he was eating sugar, when in point of fact he was... ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/17 "2012-11-26T02:08:11Z")
Teflon may cause cancer. Reagan was the Teflon President. Reagan is now dead. Draw your own conclusions. I remember when a product called Pam came out, a spray-on version of Teflon. Thing is, apparently it gave you a good high if you sprayed it into a bag and inhaled it. There was a problem with teenagers doing that. Do they still make that, and do they know what damage if any that caused? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/18 "2012-11-26T02:19:22Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Teflon may cause cancer. Reagan was the Teflon President. Reagan is now dead. Draw your own conclusions. > > I remember when a product called Pam came out, a spray-on version of Teflon. Thing is, apparently it gave you a good high if you sprayed it into a bag and inhaled it. There was a problem with teenagers doing that. Do they still make that, and do they know what damage if any that caused? I have three spray cans of Pam in my kitchen right now. Lemon, Olive Oil, and Original. I bought the most recent one a few years ago. -D/a ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/19 "2012-11-26T02:28:44Z")
Pam is - checking the label of one I bought this month - oil (canola, olive, etc.) and lecithin, plus a little dimethyl silicone for anti-foaming, occasionally some herbs (rosemary in the canola version), and a propellant. No Teflon. It’s the propellant that’s being inhaled, I assume. Kids can even get high off the nitrous that’s used as a propellant in whipped cream cans. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084/20 "2012-11-26T02:44:30Z")
Pam is spray-on cooking oil. Not any kind of a version of Teflon or anything even similar. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-teflon/642084.md?page=2)