# The end of the Twinkie? Strike threatens Hostess **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249 "2012-04-19T05:24:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/161 "2012-11-19T19:40:08Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > The company was obviously poorly managed, but most accounts I’ve read say their union contract was very generous compared to competitors. Wages need to be carefully considered and reasonably negotiated according to market factors. However, I think it’s unrealistic to expect a pension these days. Management was looking for ways to remain solvent, but the one union wouldn’t budge. (The Teamsters union did accept management’s proposal.) It was a much smaller version of what happened to the auto industry. A company just cannot pay out sweet benefits, pay, AND pensions to retired workers and stay solvent, especially when your competitors are not following your same socially responsible model. That being said, I’ll concede that doubling top executives’ pay before you ask the workhorses to take a pay cut certainly stinks to high heavens. Off topic, but I think that the next “revolution” is this country is going to be the middle class workers demanding the executive compensation be reeled in. Executive pay has risen dramatically in the last few decades. I’d support laws capping executive pay at x times the lowest paid employee. I’d also support a change of the board of directors to mandate that the workers have some representation. Currently, we have the executives creating their own benefit packages. Not suprisingly, they are sickeningly generous with themselves. I think a grass roots organization would solve this problem. Our legislators won’t do anything because our politicians are in bed with the executives. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/162 "2012-11-19T20:50:29Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > And then it’s okay to keep it, regardless of whether or not you’re entitled to it? > > By this analogy, Hostess’s management lit the building on fire, then used it as an excuse to grab all the cash out of the drawer and keep it for themselves. Depends on whose money it was in the first place. If it was their money that they invested, then yeah, it’s theirs. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/163 "2012-11-19T21:05:34Z")
[All may not yet be lost.](http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/hostess-and-bakers-union-agree-to-mediation/) Hostess and the bakers union have agreed to mediation on Tuesday in a last ditch effort to avoid liquidation and the loss of jobs. If the talks are unsuccessful, Hostess will be back in court on Wednesday to seek permission to close out the business. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/164 "2012-11-19T22:17:29Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > It doesn’t matter how reliable you are if the company goes out of business. > > You’re turning a very objective thing (economics) into an emotional thing. It doesn’t matter what anyone PREFERS. The market dictates everything, including whether a company can pay $18 to its non-skilled laborers, and still make a profit. If it can’t make a profit, it will go out of business. No, the word “shouldn’t” made this into an emotional thing. And economics may be objective, but I wouldn’t call it “very” objective, because different approaches yield different results. I for one don’t see why increasing the pay of unskilled workers requires a corresponding increase in pay of skilled workers. Sure, the latter will want it, but unless the unskilled price goes above the skilled price, there still will be people willing to take the job. And how skilled are these machine operators, anyways? I thought they were trained on the job. If so, then I know bankers (machine workers trained on the job) who make $10 an hour to the unskilled wholesale grocery box pullers who make $12 an hour. This works because the bankers do not want to do the highly physical work of the pullers, nor do they want to work at night. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/165 "2012-11-20T07:43:56Z")
I’d imagine the Union will make concessions. I can’t see their members wanting to lose jobs and their pensions four weeks before Christmas. Hostess isn’t bluffing. They will pull the plug. Really they’ve already done that and it’s only this judge’s intervention that is giving the unions one last chance to save their jobs. Even if Hostess goes under in another year or so, that still buys time for the bakers to find other work. Or even start retraining for other work. But, right now whats important is earning a paycheck. > [@cochrane](#): > > [All may not yet be lost.](http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/hostess-and-bakers-union-agree-to-mediation/) > > Hostess and the bakers union have agreed to mediation on Tuesday in a last ditch effort to avoid liquidation and the loss of jobs. If the talks are unsuccessful, Hostess will be back in court on Wednesday to seek permission to close out the business. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/166 "2012-11-20T12:42:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I for one don’t see why increasing the pay of unskilled workers requires a corresponding increase in pay of skilled workers. I can only assume that you don’t have a marketable skill. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/167 "2012-11-20T17:23:10Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I can only assume that you don’t have a marketable skill. To put it another way: nobody spends 4 years earning a degree so they can earn the same amount of money as the guy who walks around emptying the garbage cans. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/168 "2012-11-20T18:23:09Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > To put it another way: nobody spends 4 years earning a degree so they can earn the same amount of money as the guy who walks around emptying the garbage cans. Except you need to pay more for someone to do a dirty and sometimes physically tough job. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/169 "2012-11-20T19:00:02Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Except you need to pay more for someone to do a dirty and sometimes physically tough job. Umm, no, you don’t. I understand the desire for this to actually be the case, that “physically demanding”, or “undesirable due to becoming sweaty or dirty” or “working at night” jobs should be remunerated more heartily. But it is true, what a previous poster said about supply/demand. If _anyone_ can do the job of hefting a garbage can at 2AM, then that makes the garbage can-hefter pretty _easily replaceable_. If the garbage can is so heavy that not everyone can heft it, that’s when you will find a worker pushing a button on a machine. Again, an easily replaceable position. It doesn’t sit well with some of us, sure, but it is the way it is, and rightfully so, in my estimation. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/170 "2012-11-20T19:06:41Z")
> [@Dr\_Doom](#): > > If _anyone_ can do the job of hefting a garbage can at 2AM, then that makes the garbage can-hefter pretty _easily replaceable_. There is a distinction here: “_can_ anyone do the job” versus “_will_ anyone do the job.” Both have an effect on the wage. It doesn’t matter how unskilled a job is if nobody will apply for it at the current wage, and a field that requires special training but is glutted with people may not pay so well as you’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/171 "2012-11-20T19:16:46Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > …_will_ anyone do the job." Immigration. There’s a whole world of hardworking peoples waiting in line to get to the Promised Land and work for relative peanuts and live 3 families to a house. Lots of supply. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/172 "2012-11-20T20:11:00Z")
You can have my ding-dong and snowballs over my dead body! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/173 "2012-11-20T20:22:18Z")
> [@Dr\_Doom](#): > > Immigration. > > There’s a whole world of hardworking peoples waiting in line to get to the Promised Land and work for relative peanuts and live 3 families to a house. > > Lots of supply. I thought we wanted to kick those people out. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/174 "2012-11-20T21:50:30Z")
I don’t think he was talking about illegal immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/175 "2012-11-20T21:51:41Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I don’t think he was talking about illegal immigrants. You think _legal_ immigrants want to come here and work for peanuts? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/176 "2012-11-21T00:43:06Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > There is a distinction here: “_can_ anyone do the job” versus “_will_ anyone do the job.” Trash collectors in these parts actually make very good wages (and great benefits), but they are also considered skilled laborers. In addition to having crappy hours and working in extreme temperatures, they also have to have CDLs. (They used to have 2 men per truck, but now one man drives and picks up the trash.) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/177 "2012-11-21T01:14:31Z")
Well, Hostess and the bakers union didn’t reach an agreement, so Hostess will proceed to sell off its assets in bankruptcy court. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/178 "2012-11-21T13:14:26Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Trash collectors in these parts actually make very good wages (and great benefits), but they are also considered skilled laborers. In addition to having crappy hours and working in extreme temperatures, they also have to have CDLs. (They used to have 2 men per truck, but now one man drives and picks up the trash.) I was actually thinking of the guy who collects trash in an office setting, who is usually some old guy trying to suppliment his Social Security payment. Literally a job that anybody could do. Anyway, I’m a bit surprised that the last-chance effort failed. I thought the union would have been thinking, “Holy shit, they’re really serious about closing the company! We’d better deal!” Again, I’m wondering if this is the national union throwing the local chapter under the bus in some misguided effort to appear tough. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/179 "2012-11-21T13:27:12Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Again, I’m wondering if this is the national union throwing the local chapter under the bus in some misguided effort to appear tough. saw a quote somewhere about how caving would set a bad precedent for other bakers, so maybe. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249/180 "2012-11-21T17:24:30Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I was actually thinking of the guy who collects trash in an office setting, who is usually some old guy trying to suppliment his Social Security payment. Oh. Well, then, I doubt his job would require a CDL. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-twinkie-strike-threatens-hostess/619249.md?page=10)