# The end of the United Kingdom...........could come as soon as 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 11, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175 "2012-01-11T16:50:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/41 "2012-01-12T18:41:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I didn’t say imperialism. I said the _trappings_ of imperialism. I’m not clear what you mean by trappings of imperialism? Us Scots were very involved in the imperialist phase of the United Kingdom, but I’m not sure we were ever particularly victims of specifically English imperialism. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/42 "2012-01-12T18:46:10Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I’m not clear what you mean by trappings of imperialism? Us Scots were very involved in the imperialist phase of the United Kingdom, but I’m not sure we were ever particularly victims of specifically English imperialism. Cromwell perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/43 "2012-01-12T19:01:59Z")
Any chance Scotland and England go to war over this? That would be exciting! I have heard tales that a Scottish secret society has the ability to raise William Wallace from the dead for such a venture… ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/44 "2012-01-12T19:04:15Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Cromwell perhaps. I dunno. That’s not a well-remembered (at least by me) part of Scots history, unlike the Irish experience with Cromwell! ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/45 "2012-01-12T19:05:58Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Any chance Scotland and England go to war over this? That would be exciting! Zero chance! 😃 It would be exciting though - they’ve got the manpower, we’ve got the nukes… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/46 "2012-01-12T19:08:15Z")
Perhaps imperialism is the wrong word. The point is that England has been the dominant half (or third or quarter, depending on how you want to look at it) of the relationship for ever\*, and that letting Scotland secede and then merge with England on its own terms, or whatever, ensures there’s no baggage. \*yeah, yeah, I know that Scotland has ruled England for 500 years, in a sense. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/47 "2012-01-12T19:08:59Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Even Greater Britain? > [@amanset](#): > > Awesome Britain. Cool Brittania. nah, no one could be that lame. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/48 "2012-01-12T19:26:08Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > You won’t want the [Venn diagram](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10), then. 🙂 Killer! That’s some xkcd-quality diagraming, there. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/49 "2012-01-12T19:46:46Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > It depends somewhat on the discussion about how to draw the border Can we make the Tweed the border in the east again, so we can get the north side of Berwick back, please? There are some good pubs and chippies there! ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/50 "2012-01-12T19:53:46Z")
> [@hermette](#): > > Can we make the Tweed the border in the east again, so we can get the north side of Berwick back, please? There are some good pubs and chippies there! We could maybe try for Hadrian’s Wall? It’s a bit of a Scottish land grab, but hey. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/51 "2012-01-12T20:05:05Z")
> [@hermette](#): > > Can we make the Tweed the border in the east again, so we can get the north side of Berwick back, please? There are some good pubs and chippies there! Better yet why don’t we just put that perfectly functional wall back into action. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/52 "2012-01-13T05:59:03Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > My point is that many people think that Scotland is a nation state in its own right which it is not, which leads to lovely howlers like; Sean Connery was the first non-British actor to play James Bond. Of course, by the same logic, he was also the first non-Black man to play him. Also, the first non-Latino, and first non-female. 'Cuz, you know, he was the FIRST, period. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/53 "2012-01-13T06:18:23Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > Of course, by the same logic, he was also the first non-Black man to play him. Also, the first non-Latino, and first non-female. > > 'Cuz, you know, he was the FIRST, period. Actually he was [not](http://www.007james.com/articles/who_played_james_bond.php). ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/54 "2012-01-13T07:25:40Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Killer! That’s some xkcd-quality diagraming, there. Check out some of his other videos. He has a [good one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3HnMLq8m9U&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL) explaining why Scotland partnered with England in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/55 "2012-01-13T09:46:09Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > We could maybe try for Hadrian’s Wall? It’s a bit of a Scottish land grab, but hey. “A bit”? 2,000 square miles seems like more than “a bit” from where I’m sitting (ie just north of Hadrian’s Wall). ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/56 "2012-01-13T10:03:42Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Zero chance! 😃 It would be exciting though - they’ve got the manpower, we’ve got the nukes… Aren’t the nukes actually quite mobile being on submarines? Plus the few Scots I know in the armed forces are more loyal to the queen than any new Scottish parliament. Agreed would be exciting. How are they going to decide how much debt each country has? I read Salmond (who I find a very odious man for some reason) saying yesterday that England should be responsible for the RBS debt, that takes some balls. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/57 "2012-01-13T10:36:54Z")
Really, nearly 60 post and no one has mention the most important issues in all of this! What happens to Hogwarts? ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/58 "2012-01-13T12:47:17Z")
> [@Foggy](#): > > Really, nearly 60 post and no one has mention the most important issues in all of this! > > What happens to Hogwarts? Well the original castle used for filming Hogwarts is at Alnwick, approx 40 miles south of Berwick. So it’ll remain English. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/59 "2012-01-13T13:23:10Z")
From The Daily Mash: [Independent Scotland could be exactly the same, warn experts](http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/independent-scotland-could-be-exactly-the-same%2c-warn-experts-201201114752/) ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175/60 "2012-01-13T14:37:02Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > It would still be part of the British Isles, and Great Britain, both of which are geographical descriptions. It wouldn’t be part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which is a nation. > > In fact if Scotland leaves the union won’t that mean the title of the country would need to change? It wouldn’t be the United Kingdom of Great Britain any more as a big piece of it would be missing. Or could we keep on using that description under poetic licence? Hmmmm… Let’s see… well we wouldn’t be _United_ Kingdom as that relates to the union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England…and we wouldn’t be _Great_ Britain as that would include geographically Scotland… **The Kingdom of Lesser Britain** anyone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-could-come-as-soon-as-2014/609175.md?page=4)