# The ending of 12 Monkeys **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2011, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958 "2011-01-09T07:00:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/121 "2013-11-06T21:17:44Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > If you haven’t read it, you might enjoy _Palimpsest_, By Charles Stross. > > It’s a novella that goes pretty deep down the time-travel rabbit-hole, including describing what happens to pivotal moments in history when there are multiple powerful groups in possession of the capability to travel in time and not agreed on the desired outcome. It’s everything in your example and more. in a similar vein does anybody a short story where time travel was possible and people could go on supervised tours to any moment in time. In the story a tour group goes back to when Pontius Pilate makes the decision about whether to free Jesus or Barabbas. They are told to not interact with anybody in the crowd and just go along with what happened historically. So when Pilate asks who to save they all shout Barabbas. The twist in the story is that the only people there are from similar tour groups, there are no locals there at all. Anybody remember this short story? ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/122 "2013-11-07T00:35:50Z")
Looks to be “[Let’s Go To Golgotha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_go_to_Golgotha)” by Garry Kilworth. ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/123 "2013-11-07T19:34:55Z")
> [@Number](#): > > Looks to be “[Let’s Go To Golgotha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_go_to_Golgotha)” by Garry Kilworth. Cool. God bless your memory. Now to try an buy it. ---
**Author:** ![MsKaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@MsKaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsKaren)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/124 "2014-07-06T05:07:47Z")
This where I started on this topic: (Yes 2001 on this message board) \*“#1 09-24-2001, 05:41 AM” (34 replies) "I finally saw this movie about a month ago, and I found the very end thought provoking. So I want to know what others thought of it too. In your opinion, what happens after the end of 12 monkeys? The woman scientist is on the plane to do what, exactly? Quasi-related, does anyone know if the movie it’s based on ends differently?" \* I love that reading this thread is like experiencing time travel: \*2001: La Jetee ’ The whole script (fairly short) can be found here: [http://cs.art.rmit.edu.au/projects/m...Jetee\_354.html](http://cs.art.rmit.edu.au/projects/m...Jetee_354.html) later in 2001: It’s pretty old…say, 10 yrs or so. But it’s worth digging up if you can find it. There are some independant movie rental places around here that have it. by 2012: Corrected post: It’s pretty old…say, **20** yrs or so. But it’s worth digging up if you can find it. There are **very few** movie rental places around here that have it. then 2013 : Netflix has it and 2014 : six versions on Youtube \* However, despite the passage of time, each post, each opinion remains fresh and valid. That’s wonderful. That’s cool. That is art. It is something that happens inside the vewer as well as the creators. We are still dicussing this. Hell we are still debating MacBeth. That’s why 12 Monkeys is a great story. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/125 "2014-07-06T10:49:59Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > My (admittedly hazy) recollection is that Dr. Peters said he was transporting biological material, so what I’ve never understood about the movie is why the guard _opens a vial and sniffs_. That’s not just unbelievably stupid on the part of the guard, it’s unbelievably unlikely. And your experience with airport security guards leads you to believe they are not stupid? You think they are astute and bright individuals who do an A Plus job of securing the airports? My experience with airport security guards is that they took that job only because they couldn’t get into the fast food industry. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/126 "2014-07-06T10:52:21Z")
Some people in this thread asked about other great SCI FI movies. I would recommend The Fifth Element. It was a lot of fun. ---
**Author:** ![Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absinthe_Anecdote)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/127 "2014-07-06T11:10:01Z")
> [@fusoya](#): > > This has been bugging me for years, so I might as well ask. At the end of this great film, Dr Peters boards the plane with the virus in his briefcase, making stops all over the world to release it. Dr Jones, the woman who sent Cole on his time-travel mission, sits down next to him, and introduces herself as being in insurance. > > What happens next? > > Either > > a. she stops him from releasing the virus > > or > > b. she makes sure the virus still gets released > > I always assumed it was a, but there was always something so sinister about her, especially in that scene, which made me think that she had ulterior motives. Likewise, just what was she going to do to STOP him? She was there to get a sample of the virus before it mutated, so they could make a vaccine and return to the surface in the future timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/128 "2014-07-06T15:41:24Z")
> [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](#): > > She was there to get a sample of the virus before it mutated, so they could make a vaccine and return to the surface in the future timeline. And I still say (as I wrote in the mists of the past earlier in this thread 🙂 ) that all of that was a lie. Their real goal was to make sure the plague happened just as it was supposed to so they can remain in power. Her saying she was in Insurance was to show she was full of shit and not really a Scientist. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/129 "2014-07-06T16:40:04Z")
That makes no sense. If they wanted things to play out as they did, why go back in time at all? They already had what they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/130 "2014-07-06T16:42:08Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Some people in this thread asked about other great SCI FI movies. > > I would recommend The Fifth Element. It was a lot of fun. I like _The Fifth Element_; it’s a lot of fun. But Science Fiction, it is not. Oh, I agree that in the broader cultural identity it’s classified as “sci fi;” but it’s really not science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absinthe_Anecdote)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/131 "2014-07-06T16:48:41Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > And I still say (as I wrote in the mists of the past earlier in this thread 🙂 ) that all of that was a lie. Their real goal was to make sure the plague happened just as it was supposed to so they can remain in power. Her saying she was in Insurance was to show she was full of shit and not really a Scientist. Their big goal was to go back above ground and live on the surface. They would remain in control because their past had already happened. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/132 "2014-07-06T18:45:15Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > That makes no sense. If they wanted things to play out as they did, why go back in time at all? They already had what they wanted. Because they needed him to go back in time to cause the plague in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/133 "2014-07-06T20:19:07Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Because they needed him to go back in time to cause the plague in the first place. As far as I recall, he didn’t have anything to do with causing the plague in either timeline. He tried to stop it but failed miserably. The plague was released by David Morse (was he a lab tech?) checking into the airport, when security uncorked and sniffed the test tube or whatever. Incidentally, it looks like a remake is going to be released this year. EDIT: [IMDb says](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3148266/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2) it’s a TV movie on USA. Maybe still worth checking out. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/134 "2014-07-06T20:50:17Z")
> [@MsKaren](#): > > I love that reading this thread is like experiencing time travel: > > \*2001: La Jetee ’ The whole script (fairly short) can be found here: [http://cs.art.rmit.edu.au/projects/m...Jetee\_354.html](http://cs.art.rmit.edu.au/projects/m...Jetee_354.html) > > later in 2001: It’s pretty old…say, 10 yrs or so. But it’s worth digging up if you can find it. There are some independant movie rental places around here that have it. > > by 2012: Corrected post: It’s pretty old…say, **20** yrs or so. But it’s worth digging up if you can find it. There are **very few** movie rental places around here that have it. > > then 2013 : Netflix has it > and 2014 : six versions on Youtube\* 2015: “Seems like more and more people this week have been calling in sick to work…” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/135 "2014-07-06T22:10:25Z")
2016: “There’s talk about a remake by Brett Ratner with Will Smith as the lead.” ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/136 "2014-07-06T22:17:08Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I like _The Fifth Element_; it’s a lot of fun. But Science Fiction, it is not. > > Oh, I agree that in the broader cultural identity it’s classified as “sci fi;” but it’s really not science fiction. Fair enough. I just didn’t know how to classify it. IMDB classifies it as “Action Adventure Sci Fi”. But I would agree with you about it not really being Sci Fi. > **[The Fifth Element (1997) ⭐ 7.6 | Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_66)** > > 2h 6m | PG-13 Maybe it’s some kind of fantasy? A futuristic fantasy? If it wasn’t for Chris Tucker, it would have been a much better movie. IMHO, he was really terrible and every time he was on the screen, he brought the movie down. He really sucked in this movie. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/137 "2014-07-07T02:57:44Z")
Science-fantasy? ---
**Author:** ![Orr\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ee59a6/32.png) [@Orr\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orr_G)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/138 "2014-07-07T03:30:31Z")
Fashion fiction. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/139 "2014-07-08T03:11:39Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Fair enough. I just didn’t know how to classify it. IMDB classifies it as “Action Adventure Sci Fi”. But I would agree with you about it not really being Sci Fi. > > [The Fifth Element (1997) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_66) > > Maybe it’s some kind of fantasy? A futuristic fantasy? > > If it wasn’t for Chris Tucker, it would have been a much better movie. IMHO, he was really terrible and every time he was on the screen, he brought the movie down. He really sucked in this movie. Space Opera. Although wiki says it’s a sub-genre of science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958/140 "2014-07-08T20:45:54Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > If it wasn’t for Chris Tucker, it would have been a much better movie. IMHO, he was really terrible and every time he was on the screen, he brought the movie down. He really sucked in this movie. Chris Tucker made the movie. Without his performance it would have been just another space fiction like you’d see on SyFy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ending-of-12-monkeys/566958.md?page=8)