# The Engine Room: FORBIDDEN thread for Mafia SS Insipid **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 4, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327 "2009-08-04T20:02:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/41 "2009-08-17T19:12:11Z")
They got one. Things would’ve been tough for the town if they hadn’t. The game could still go either way. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/42 "2009-08-18T20:37:42Z")
What an interesting vote by Chronos. Not Hal, but HAL. (He voted Hal, too.) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/43 "2009-08-18T20:58:00Z")
The ship is simply a lazy deus ex machina to effect game mechanisms because the moderator dislikes writing in-game color. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/44 "2009-08-20T21:08:33Z")
It occurs to me we’ve yet to see any evidence of scum power roles in action. I wonder if there’s a sabateur who can stop a single doc/engineer action, once. Or something like that. That would kind of throw off Chronos’s plan. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/45 "2009-08-20T21:10:10Z")
No comment. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Heller\_Highwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@Heller\_Highwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heller_Highwater)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/46 "2009-08-20T23:49:22Z")
Were I **Darth** _and_ were I mutinous, I’d consider immediately ordering someone’s examination, so as to use up the doc’s power for the day. Of course, that assumes that the doctor power can only be used once per day, not once per day per doc. Still…it seems like it’d completely throw a monkey wrench in **Chronos** ’ plans. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/47 "2009-08-21T17:31:25Z")
> [@Mafia: Mutiny on the SS Insipid \[Game Over\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/366): > > Day Three Current Vote Count > > 5 players outside the Brig =\> 3 votes to lynch. **Hal Briston** will be lynched with these votes. > > **Hal Briston** (4): ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [257], Chronos [318], ColdPhoenix [337], Scuba\_Ben [338], [del]Darth Sensitive [356-364][/del]. > **Darth Sensitive** (2): Chronos [318], Hal Briston [358]. > **ColdPhoenix** (1): ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [95]. > **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** (0): [del]Scuba\_Ben [327-338][/del]. > > Doctor Darth Sensitive examines **ColdPhoenix** [360]. > > Arrest warrants: > **Darth Sensitive** by ColdPhoenix [354] and ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [364]. > [del] **Chronos** by ColdPhoenix [169][/del] cancelled by ColdPhoenix [325]. > > With the arrest the new crew listing is > > 1. ColdPhoenix – Captain > 2. Chronos – Executive Officer > 3. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Chief of Security > 4. Hal Briston – Head of Engineering > 5. Darth Sensitive – Brig > 6. Scuba\_Ben – Ship’s Doctor Let’s see. Gaming this out: It’s barely possible that there’s a Scuba/Chronos scum team (how would this work? Scuba is an alpha and Chronos is a vanilla scum. Ichini was a dupe), in which case the scum win. Alternately, Chronos could be a fake Mason, which seems overly gastardly to me; if he has a partner in crime, it’s pretty hard to see the scum losing this game. As Chronos has pointed out, a Cold + Cookies team will win as well. Other possibles are: 1 - Hal + Darth. Hal flips scum, Darth either: (a) tells the truth about Cold, no night kill. That leaves open the possibility that Cookies is the only scum, who deliberately held off on a night kill to frame Darth. Town can lynch Cookies while leaving Darth in jail, find out that Cookies is town, and then lynch Darth. (b) lies about Cold, no night kill. Town can lynch Cold as above. 2 - Hal + Cookies. Hal flips scum, Darth reports Cold as Town. Cookies is toast, whether she night kills or not. 3 - Hal + Cold. Hal flips scum, Darth reports Cold as scum. Town wins again. 4 & 5 - Darth + Cold or Cookies: Hal flips town. Darth can tell the truth or lie. If town lynches the scum of (Cold and Cookies) and keeps Darth in prison they win. If they lynch the nonscum, they lose. 6 & 7 - Cookies alone or Cold alone: The flip side of 4 and 5 - Darth can correctly ID the scum, the scum can claim Darth is lying, and someone has to make the call. If town believes Darth, they win; if they don’t, they lose. 8 - Darth alone. Town has basically already won. There will be no night-kill, they can lynch whoever, and when there isn’t a nightkill again they’ll know to finish off Darth. 9 - Chronos alone, as a fake-mason role. I think he’d basically have it won already: night-kill Ben, lynch either Cookies or Cold, then night-kill the other and win. So basically if Hal is scum, and assuming no scum power roles disrupt this, town has won. Otherwise, it comes down to whether town trusts Darth or not. Whee! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/48 "2009-08-21T17:57:14Z")
> [@Mafia: Mutiny on the SS Insipid \[Game Over\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-mutiny-on-the-ss-insipid-game-over/504896/370): > > Man, I hope **Hal** is Scum. I hope he isn’t - this could be quite fun to watch. I’m kind of hoping Ben is a scum alpha or Chronos is a false Mason, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/49 "2009-08-21T19:52:10Z")
Hmm… Cold could also pull last-minute shenanigans by releasing himself and trying to time the post so it gets in ahead of Chronos’s last-minute post, but before Chronos has a chance to react. ---
**Author:** ![Heller\_Highwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@Heller\_Highwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heller_Highwater)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/50 "2009-08-21T20:17:14Z")
I don’t see how…if I read the rules correctly, it’s the Chief of Security that has arrest/release powers, not the Captain (who only gets to issue/cancel warrents or _order_ a release). Or do you mean something where he cancels his own arrest warrent before **Chronos** can brig him? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/51 "2009-08-21T20:21:06Z")
Yes. Canceling his own arrest warrant. The timing would be trickier than for a last-minute Cookies switcheroo, but he could still try to get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/52 "2009-08-24T19:16:26Z")
The game is still not over and either side could win. I’m definitely going to run this rules set again. The tactics of using the officer positions versus who to lynch or Night-kill is fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/53 "2009-08-24T19:43:03Z")
Wow. If Darth is not scum, town wins by lynching cookies. If Darth is scum, town wins by brigging him and then guessing which glass has the poisoned wine between ColdPhoenix and cookies. Safer to just brig Darth regardless, I guess. (I’m assuming the glitch letting Darth out happened after the night kill, so he can’t be a solo scum team). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/54 "2009-08-24T19:45:08Z")
Ben is wrong incidentally; because he can still brig Sensitive, town has not already lost in a 2-scum game. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/55 "2009-08-24T19:46:27Z")
However, Ben had better re-brig Sensitive fast, because if the scum team is ColdP and Sensitive, scum CAN assure a victory if ColdP just pardons Darth. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/56 "2009-08-24T19:55:22Z")
Man, I was a bit concerned about a Scum secret power who could break out of the Brig, but I didn’t say anything about it, because if so, it didn’t seem like there would be anything Town could do about it. I hope, at least, that he can’t break out of the Brig and kill on the same night: If so, that could make things tricky for Town. Of course, it’s also possible that the jailbreak is a one-time power. Let’s see here… **Scuba** could re-arrest **Darth** , bringing it down to the situation we expected to have, but without the possibility of arresting anyone else at the last minute. In this case, **Scuba** has the deciding vote between **ColdPhoenix** and **Cookies**. If there are a total of three Scum and he chooses correctly, then we’re down to two Town, **Darth** has to (I hope) escape instead of Night-kill (or maybe can’t escape again at all), and **Scuba** and whoever else is left will have an easy choice to kill him toMorrow. But if there are only two Scum total, then **Darth** clearly has the ability to escape and kill in the same Night (if he can do it again), and killing **ColdPhoenix** or **Cookies** costs Town the game, since brigging **Darth** is pretty much useless. On the other hand, Town could kill **Darth** , and try to get someone else arrested. Presumably, this would only work for arresting **Cookies** , since in the present situation **ColdPhoenix** almost certainly won’t put out a warrant on himself, regardless of his alignment. In any event, Town really needs to arrest _somebody_, since if **Darth** is the last Mutie, then an arrest won’t matter, but if there’s another, then leaving that person free puts Town into an unwinnable situation toMorrow. Yet another wrinkle: If **ColdPhoenix** and **Darth** are Scum together, then **ColdPhoenix** can just cancel **Darth** ’s arrest order, and refuse to issue another. Town would have no chance in such a situation, unless **Cookies** has some secret power that’s relevant here (unlikely, I think). So I think **Scuba** is forced to trust **ColdPhoenix**. I think that the correct move here is to ask **ColdPhoenix** for a warrant on Cookies, execute it, and then lynch **Darth**. That way, we don’t have to worry about whether **Darth** can escape again or not. No matter how you slice it, the fate of the game pretty much rests entirely on **Scuba** right now. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/57 "2009-08-24T20:00:50Z")
Scuba should re-arrest Darth and vote cookies. As you noted, if ColdP were scum, he could have pardoned Darth and just declared victory. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/58 "2009-08-24T20:02:52Z")
Oh, and it could have been Cookies who had the power that sprang Darth. (I guess theoretically Cold could be both (a) and Alpha and (b) have the power to release players from prison, but that seems a bit much). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/59 "2009-08-24T20:11:11Z")
I’m hoping that someone points out to **ColdPhoenix** the rules change in [post 45](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11410588&postcount=45). I’d hate to see a mistaken assumption about the number of Scum sink Town two games in a row. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/60 "2009-08-24T20:24:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m hoping that someone points out to **ColdPhoenix** the rules change in [post 45](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11410588&postcount=45). I’d hate to see a mistaken assumption about the number of Scum sink Town two games in a row. I don’t like games being determined by a misinterpretation of the rules, and with several players have shown the same misunderstanding, I reminded everyone in the game thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327.md?page=4)