# The Engine Room: FORBIDDEN thread for Mafia SS Insipid **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 4, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327 "2009-08-04T20:02:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/61 "2009-08-24T20:47:37Z")
BTW, I assume the glitch that freed Darth S. also demoted him? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/62 "2009-08-24T21:48:04Z")
Ooh, that could be bad, if **Darth** is actually supposed to be Security right now. As in, game over bad. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/63 "2009-08-25T00:46:12Z")
OK, new assessment of possibilities: 1: **Scuba** is a false mason Godfather. OK, that would be extremely gastard. Moving on… 2: **Darth** alone is Scum 3: **Cookies** alone is Scum 4: There are two Scum, at least one of whom is a Brig officer. They can block the lynch and the Brig, and there’s nothing Town can do about it. 5: There are two Scum, at least one of whom is a Brig officer, but there is something Town can do about it in one of the secret roles. The only thing I can think of would be a Vigilante, but there might be something else. If we’re in scenario 1 or 4, there’s no point in worrying about what we do, because we’ll lose no matter what. If we’re in scenario 2 or 3, then we can win by brigging **Cookies** and lynching **Darth**. No last-minute actions or other subterfuge should be necessary: In the unlikely event that **Darth** is Town, then he knows **Cookies** is Scum, so he shouldn’t object to brigging her, and if **ColdPhoenix** is Town, he knows that the Scum are confined to **Cookies** and **Darth** , so he should have no objection to taking out both. If we’re in scenario 5, then the Vig is either **ColdPhoenix** or **Cookies**. If it’s **ColdPhoenix** , then the double-hit should work fine; if it’s **Cookies** , then she’ll need to claim and hope that Town believes her. And, of course, if anyone doesn’t go along with the double-hit, that’s who the Vig needs to target toNight. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/64 "2009-08-25T14:03:45Z")
Possibility 1 is truly gastardly and players would rightly complain about that. One thing you need to consider is that players (even scum) do not necessarily make the optimal choices. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/65 "2009-08-25T15:04:36Z")
Yeah, but they’re _supposed_ to! I mean, isn’t that how those logic problems always work? Logic problems always say that people always act rationally, and a logic problem wouldn’t lie to me, would it? And **Scuba** is busy drawing all the wrong conclusions, here: **ColdPhoenix** isn’t acting according to the plan I put forward before I died, because the plan I put forward before I died didn’t account for **Darth** ’s escape. It’s now useless, and a new plan is now necessary. And in fact, the best we can do right now does indeed involve him putting out a warrant for **Cookies**. I also don’t like how everyone seems to be deciding which one person they think is most likely to be Scum, and then choosing between lynching or brigging that one person. If there are two Scum left, then we need to do both, and even if there’s only one, doing both is a lot safer. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/66 "2009-08-25T15:20:27Z")
BTW, you’ve left out one possibility in your list, Chronos - specifically, that ColdPhoenix is a godfather, and Darth is a loyal escape artist who didn’t really think out the way in which his escape screwed over town. (This would explain why Cold didn’t unarrest Darth and declare victory early in the day when it looked like Ben could rearrest Darth.) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/67 "2009-08-25T15:23:54Z")
Oh, and a ColdPhoenix/Darth team would have already won anyway, by brigging cookies which would activate their victory condition. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/68 "2009-08-25T20:02:53Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > BTW, you’ve left out one possibility in your list, Chronos - specifically, that ColdPhoenix is a godfather, and Darth is a loyal escape artist who didn’t really think out the way in which his escape screwed over town. > > (This would explain why Cold didn’t unarrest Darth and declare victory early in the day when it looked like Ben could rearrest Darth.) Well, Darth is claiming escape artist anyway, no telling if he’s loyal or not. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/69 "2009-08-26T20:17:01Z")
At this point, town’s only option looks like spacing Darth and hoping he’s the only scum. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/70 "2009-08-26T20:38:03Z")
Interesting… **ColdPhoenix** claims that he thinks **Darth** is Scum, _and yet he’s not voting for him_. If he’s Town, I hope that he realizes this. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/71 "2009-08-26T20:58:06Z")
He’s still got most of the day to change his vote. And I’m sure Ben and probably Cookies will remind him. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/72 "2009-08-26T22:56:06Z")
Right now, my suspicion is that **Cookies** and **Darth** are the Scum team, and that **Cookies** will unvote **Darth** at the last minute for the win. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/73 "2009-08-27T14:40:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Right now, my suspicion is that **Cookies** and **Darth** are the Scum team, and that **Cookies** will unvote **Darth** at the last minute for the win. Though I don’t see why she would even risk having the vote on him and then losing access for some stupid reason for a day. I guess they could be playing cautious in case of day-kills or something, but they could just as well both be openly gloating. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/74 "2009-08-27T15:21:09Z")
Nothing else seems to make sense, though. If **Darth** is Town, then he knows that **Cookies** is Scum, and yet he’s neither arresting nor voting for her. That makes him look very Scummy… So why isn’t he? If **Darth** were Scum and **Cookies** Town, he should be quite happy to go after her. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/75 "2009-08-27T15:25:37Z")
Actually, let me amend that. It’s possible that **Darth** is the last Scum, but thinks that the case against him is too solid already, and figures his only chance to survive is to sow as much confusion as possible. Maybe, just maybe, if Town wrongly figures it’s hopeless, then they’ll just give up. It’s a very risky play, and I wouldn’t have tried it, but it’s at least plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/76 "2009-08-27T15:33:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Nothing else seems to make sense, though. If **Darth** is Town, then he knows that **Cookies** is Scum, and yet he’s neither arresting nor voting for her. That makes him look very Scummy… So why isn’t he? If **Darth** were Scum and **Cookies** Town, he should be quite happy to go after her. Well, he could vote for her, but it would be stupid to jail her because then he’d definitely get lynched. If he’s on a scum team by himself, he’s kind of screwed and knows it and is just having some fun on his last day, I’d guess. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/77 "2009-08-27T15:52:09Z")
Neither side has perfect information (especially about secret roles), so I have to give everyone a chance to screw up. I think I’ll be able to end the game at the end of ToDay. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-engine-room-forbidden-thread-for-mafia-ss-insipid/505327/78 "2009-08-27T19:11:14Z")
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