# The Enterprise VS. Star-Destroyer **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 20, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274 "2011-01-20T02:32:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/81 "2011-01-21T16:14:32Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > By the time the war started, the school was no longer in operation. Jake was actually working for Starfleet as a reporter and Nog was an officer. I’m watching start of season 3 right now, they’re both still kids. Sure, there’s no \*declared \*war, but they just got attacked on a field trip, Bajor’s colony got destroyed, the \*Odyssey \*just got blown up and the \*Defiant \*'s ass kicked. Seems like perfect child-raising environment to me, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/82 "2011-01-21T16:17:08Z")
One final…_datum_. Lego makes an entire (brilliant) Star Wars line. They totally ignore Trek. I trust the Danes. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/83 "2011-01-21T16:24:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m watching start of season 3 right now, they’re both still kids. Sure, there’s no \*declared \*war, but they just got attacked on a field trip, Bajor’s colony got destroyed, the \*Odyssey \*just got blown up and the \*Defiant \*'s ass kicked. Seems like perfect child-raising environment to me, yeah. That wasn’t war yet, that was what they call “heightened tensions”😃 ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/84 "2011-01-21T16:31:19Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Actually, a Star Destroyer is just a Destroyer, with “Star” tacked onto it as a standard prefix. Starfighters don’t fight stars, Star Cruisers don’t cruise stars (however you would do it), and Battlestars don’t battle stars (or star battles, or whatever). Mind you, for some reason, in sci-fi settings, Destroyers are always huge massively powerful warships, while in real life they are skirmishers designed to protect more important ships from attackers (originally employed to destroy torpedo boats. And now you know… the rest of the story). You are thinking of frigates. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/85 "2011-01-21T16:41:47Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > You are thinking of frigates. Destroyers began as [torpedo boat destroyers.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer) As American frigates during the Napoleonic wars, they just kept getting bigger and bigger. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/86 "2011-01-21T17:23:09Z")
> [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](#): > > Dude, we’re on an internet message board. How often can we really go without discussing this? Maybe five minutes. Ten minutes, tops. > [@Raguleader](#): > > To be fair, in the real world, neither ship would exist… 😃 This reliance on direct observation and logic instead of acceptance of the fictional settings interferes with my Zen contemplative state. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/87 "2011-01-21T17:29:59Z")
Bah. The Federation calls in a retrofitted [Giant Space Doobie](http://www.securityskeptic.com/images/Doomsday_Machine.jpg)which swallows up all the Imperial craft like so many stems and seeds. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/88 "2011-01-21T17:33:29Z")
Star destroyers were a dime a dozen in the Star Wars Universe. They were peopled with faceless nobodys, except when Vader would occaisionally comandeer one. The Enterprise contained all the main characters of the Star Trek Universe. Therefore plot considerations demand the the Enterprise win. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/89 "2011-01-21T17:58:28Z")
Star Trek slot machine: 5 different adventures/levels Star Wars slot machines: 5 different machines Vegas has it a tie. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/90 "2011-01-21T19:34:48Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > To be fair, in the real world, neither ship would exist… 😃 But if they did we should remember that SW was “a long time ago” and ST is set in our future. Therefore, when it comes around in a few hundred years, the Enterprise has to do battle with a pile of rust and dust or the descendants of the original crews who have either evolved or devolved. (I am leaving out all forms of time travel from any franchise simply for my own convenience.) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/91 "2011-01-21T19:37:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Per the Star Wars RPG, a Star Destroyer isn’t a destroyer - it’s a cruiser. A Star Destroyer is neither a star nor a destroyer. Discuss amooangst yooaselves. 😃 A serious question amidst a hilarious thread: Did Star Destroyers possess tractor beam technology? Or was that only specific to the Death Star? I would think this would give it a big tactical advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/92 "2011-01-21T19:39:25Z")
> [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](#): > > Dude, we’re on an internet message board. How often can we really go without discussing this? > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Maybe five minutes. Ten minutes, tops. Oh boy, here comes the Enterprise/Star Destroyer slash fic. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/93 "2011-01-21T19:55:13Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > A Star Destroyer is neither a star nor a destroyer. Discuss amooangst yooaselves. 😃 > > A serious question amidst a hilarious thread: Did Star Destroyers possess tractor beam technology? Or was that only specific to the Death Star? I would think this would give it a big tactical advantage. We never see them used on Star Destroyers in the movies (although a case can be made that Leia’s ship in the first movie was drawn up into the Star Destroyer by a tractor beam), but IIRC there is a line in ESB when the aluminum falcon is fleeing Bespin and being chased by the Sooper Star Destroyer, and Replaceable Captain gives an order to prepare the tractor beams and have boarding parties set their weapons on stun. According to the RPGs and the EU novels, yes, they do have them. They also have ion cannons, which are supposed to disable a ship’s electronics. IMO: based upon on-screen evidence, and some SWAGs, a Star Destroyer has the _capability_ to smear a fleet of Enterprises all over the Universe, and could probably reduce the entire Federation to cinders in a matter of weeks, but are crewed by such incompetent boobs that they’re not much use for anything better than being giant targets for plucky heroes. ETA: Win to Enterprise/Federation ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/94 "2011-01-21T20:24:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The introduction of Galactica as a third combatant is also interesting. While Galactica doesn’t even have beam weapons, it has an even cooler method of interstellar movement - it simply jumps - and is awesomely resilient to attack; it must be about seventy percent armor. The goddamn thing is unkillable. I hate to interject, but the Galactica is not in the same class as a Star Destroyer or the Enterprise. No shields. Autocannons, rail guns and missles instead of energy weapons. Intentionally primitive avionics and minimal automation. It’s like a WW I Dreadnaught versus a WW II Iowa class battleship or a modern Ticonderoga missle cruiser. The only question is whether the Star Destroyer or the Enterprise is the modern missle cruiser or antiquated battleship. Being a neutral party, it’s hard for me to say. The damage rating of phasers vs turbolasers is irrelevant IMHO. What’s more powerful? The USS Constitution’s entire broadside of cannons or the 40mm Bofors anti-aircraft gun on the USS Iowa battleship? Using just those weapons, which ship would you rather be on? The air wing of the Star Destroyer is essentially useless. TIE fighters have no shields and would simply get picked off as fast as the Enterprise (or one of it’s shielded shuttles) could shoot it’s phasers. Replicators and transporters would also seem to imply a more advanced technology. And the Enterprise is clearly more menuverable than your typical Star Wars capital ship. OTOH, hyperspace technology seems far superior to warp technology in plain ole just getting you there. And the Star Destroyer is the product of a thousands of years old spacefaring civilization. And the Star Destroyers weapons can fire in all directions, so menuevering doesn’t really add much benefit for the Enterprise. I’m pretty much assuming that turbolasers and phasers/ photon torpedos will destroy the unshielded opposing ship just as easily. Although the Enterprise just sort of seems more fragile than a Star Destroyer. I guess it comes down to who can deplete the other ships shields first. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/95 "2011-01-21T20:57:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Although the Enterprise just sort of seems more fragile than a Star Destroyer. Well, the Federation sure as hell hasn’t heard of fuses or circuit breakers. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/96 "2011-01-21T21:39:09Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > IMO: based upon on-screen evidence, and some SWAGs, a Star Destroyer has the _capability_ to smear a fleet of Enterprises all over the Universe, and could probably reduce the entire Federation to cinders in a matter of weeks, but are crewed by such incompetent boobs that they’re not much use for anything better than being giant targets for plucky heroes. Herein lies the rub. It could come down to who is commanding each of these vessels, and what kind of grasp of strategy and tactics they have. Typical Imperial commanders seem to rely more on brute force than critical thinking. Example? Okay: https://www.youtube.com/embed/n5U2reZbFw8?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/97 "2011-01-21T22:14:34Z")
The linked article is silly and pointless. It just concedes the stand up fight on size alone, not looking at weapons or capabilities at all. That’s like saying size is all that matters when comparing a 17th Century unarmored wooden sailing ship of the line with 120 smoothbore cannon and carronades against a WWII era PT boat. > **[PT boat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT_boat)** > > A PT boat (short for patrol torpedo boat) was a motor torpedo boat used by the United States Navy in World War II. It was small, fast, and inexpensive to build, valued for its maneuverability and speed but hampered at the beginning of the war by ineffective torpedoes, limited armament, and comparatively fragile construction that limited some of the variants to coastal waters. In the US Navy they were organized in Motor Torpedo Boat Squadrons (MTBRONs). > The PT boat was very different from the ... That thing has torpedos, a 40mm Bofors gun, and rocket launchers. Now I’m not saying that the Enterprise has that level of technological advantage, but the article does not even address the question, just assumes the answer. Assuming the answer = not good. Instead it resorts to pulling obscure, single plot resolution devices out of the history file assuming that the Enterprise crew has access to the equipment and the understanding to replicate those feats. Like splitting Vader into good and bad halfs. Which is preposterously silly. If you want to debate the fight, at least engage the debate, don’t handwave around it with silliness. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/98 "2011-01-21T23:01:24Z")
Has anyone suggested, “Kirk, if he’s prepared” yet? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/99 "2011-01-21T23:09:22Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > If you want to debate the fight, at least engage the debate, don’t handwave around it with silliness. Dude, we’re debating the relative power of two totally made-up spaceships, from two totally different movie franchises, on a message board, on the internet. Silly would be a step **up**. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274/100 "2011-01-21T23:52:13Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > Herein lies the rub. It could come down to who is commanding each of these vessels, and what kind of grasp of strategy and tactics they have. > > Typical Imperial commanders seem to rely more on brute force than critical thinking. > > Example? Okay: > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5U2reZbFw8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5U2reZbFw8) > > 😃 That’s been one of my “Favorites” on YouTube for a while now. I particularly love the expression on Chewie’s face as they’re flying away. The look of stunned horror is priceless. And personally, being a former tank crewman, I think Tarkin’s grasp of tactics and critical thinking/problem solving skills are just fine in that instance. Since Yavin IV is a moon of a gas giant, making the gas-giant go buh-bye is probably just as effective as blowing up the moon. There’s nothing wrong with a brute-force approach to problem solving when the object is to blow the ever-loving shit out of someting. I stand by my assertion that, based upon on-screen evidence, the Star Destroyer is the significantly more potent vessel, but the Enterprise/Federation wins based upon observed crew capablities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-enterprise-vs-star-destroyer/568274.md?page=6)